On another thread, 'Anonymous' said about RR closing early: ''Everyone should come over here & partee & parley instead, are we not the Overspill?''
You know what I say to that Mr. Effing Anonymous, and people like you?
I say darn good idea, old chap.
So here's an open thread. Post at will (don't worry, Will's wearing protective equipment).
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31 comments:
ig zack lee. Is it thursday morning already ? That went fast.
Right. Here;s my main musical concern of the week, and forgive me for jacking this thread with
Michael Jackson
but:
who saw the memorial ?
I couldn't believe the Guardian coverage, sniffy, ignorant and downright wrong, I can only imagine the res of the media, I had to stop reading. In particular some female columnis whose name escapes me but it starts with H offered that Stevie Wonder's contribution was "forgettable".
She must be deaf of dim.
Or doesn't own Fulfillingness First Finale (AOTW?) which contains They Won't Go When I Go which is the ultimate funeral song :
"No more lying friends
Wanting tragic ends
Though they do pretend
They won't go when I go
All those bleeding hearts
With sorrows to impart
Were rght here from the start
They won't go when I go
And I'll go where I've longed to go
so long away from tears
unclean minds mislead the pure
the innocent will leave for sure
for them there is a resting place....
there ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
who will take more than he will give
he will give
he ain't hardly gonna give...
It's a lonely, sad, honest heart-breaking song (which bless him, George Michael had a go at too in the 90s)
Seeing Stevie alone at the piano, singing like a bird to Michael (previously he'd sung I Never Dreamed You'd Leave In Summer Michael) was the highlight of the event for me, an event which was sombre, grieving, respectful and celebratory all at once.
I loved all the gospel stuff too, Lionel Richie and Jennifer Hudson, and missed that Smokey didn't sing. And then Jermaine JAckson sang "Smile" which was heartbreak hotel - if you have a heart of course.
RIP Michael Jackson
There were two younger singers I was impressed with - a thin, tall slightly Hawaiian looking woman and a black guy in a suit who sang with her at on epoint. Anyone know who they were?
I've got to go out for most of the day, but just so that I'm committed to explaining myself later, I found the bits of the WJ memorial I saw (read "couldn't avoid") on the news deeply unsettling and distasteful. Exactly the sort of thing that's had me mostly avoiding the TV and papers for the last fortnight.
As this is the open forum, I'll repeat an off-the-cuff post I made last night:
Is it time, I wonder, to give 'Readers Recommend - The Complete Index' a more dignified and reverential name?
'The Great Marconium' seems to be my starter for ten (tin has since upped that to ‘The Great MaRRconium’).
Marconius7 obviously gets to pick the winner. None of these fancy poll thingies.
BTW, Jimmy Carr summed up the MJ thing for me, although in a more extreme way, of course. He said that when he heard about MJ's death, it provoked the same feeling as when Diana died. He couldn't give a f*ck. (It's comedy: don't get upset.)
I do remember where I was when I heard that Diana had died; driving along the M4 back from parents' house with MsStepAbahachi, wondering why the hell all the radio stations were playing dirge-like electronic organ music. Couldn't bear listening to it for long enough to pick up one of the very sombre and respectful news bulletins, until stumbled across one by chance.
As for the naming issue, obviously it would be good to celebrate Marconius' staggering achievement, but at the same time we don't want it to be completely unintelligible to non-regulars. The CoRRnucopia?
Let us also not forget (or do you say let us not also forget?) FouRRfoot's spoRRtify playlist pRRoject.
I'm not keen on words with double capital R's in 'em, I thought Chris's idea was OK.
I have to agree with Jimmy Carr but I feel almost as tainted doing that as having any association with MJ.
(TV and paper avoidance here too)
MJ: I saw bits of the memorial but had to leave, the journalist is the usually wonderful Hadley Freeman. You could say I'm a fan of MJ's music, but I'm not sad he died. Actually a good friend of mine had this theory that a proper fan, the crazy kind, should do a Lennon to MJ and kill him. Now this may be offensive, but it's true that in the last 10-15 years, he hasn't done anything that didn't fit in the slow descent into ridicule and clowndom box. He had become a joke, tainting his musical legacy, which I find brilliant. Of course he had his reasons (some behaviours and acts are of course inexcusable), and I don't know how I would have coped with the upbringing he had, but if I were covering this, yes I coul;d choose to focus on the music, but if you stray from that, one can't be uniformly elegiac when writing about him.
The Guardian's coverage wasn't all like you describe, Paul Lester's blog for example, was pretty fair I think.
What I meant to say is that MJ brought the ambivalence of his tributes on himself, but I should stress that his music was, for the most part wonderful. Until Dangerous.
Check this out Magicman:
http://www.nationofmillions.ca/content/peanut-butter-wolfs-michael-jackson-video-tribute
Completely different subject - if you go to enough gigs by bands that you get to be on first name terms with some band members, is it possible to avoid getting caught up in inter-band politics when things go pear-shaped?
Over the past couple of months I've had to deal with two very acrimonious splits in different bands where I know parties on both sides, and in one case I've got dragged into things against my will.
Has anyone else here run into this sort of thing?
@ Kalyr - "if you go to enough gigs by bands that you get to be on first name terms with some band members"
Now you see, you've lost me already ... I WISH I could get anywhere near that level!
Right, bedtime for the girls, back in (hopefully) an hour or so.
@DsD - I'm talking about bands playing club venues to audiences of a couple of hundred people.
It's not like I'm on first name terms with Axl Rose :) Though I have had Fish recognise me at a gig...
Still, at the moment, I've having to *really* watch my words on blogs and Twitter. 20 years ago I could say what I liked about Ritchie Blackmore or Roger Waters safe in the knowledge that they've never hear or read my words.
magicman - I do hope you're being easy on yourself. The over-reaction and sentimentality when some famous people die means that any reasonable person will be driven to tastelessness and humour just to cope.
Anyway, he's somewhere on an island, with Elvis.
Since it's an open thread.....
I totally dond Darceysdad's comment from 9.47AM.
It's not that he did nothing musical but I was never a fan of Disco so I always managed to totally overlook his musical output.
But then he became a freak against nature. And I won't mention the other allegations about him. When I heard that he'd died (from frauimmel, who has to get up much earlier than I do) I just lifted an eyebrow and rolled over to get another hour of sleep. It was no suprise.
I really don't want to say anything more about it. The whole pantomine disgusts me too much.
@ DaddyPig, he's not somewhere on an island, he's down my local chip shop with......
As a single sentence, "What I meant to say is that MJ brought the ambivalence of his tributes on himself" is probably one of the most succinct and well-put I have read on the issue. Nice one EJ.
Otherwise, I didn't see the memorial, but only accidentally. I think you have to accept that GU blogs will normally be a little heavy on the cooler-than-all-this irony, but then Pickard, Freeman, Burkeman et al usually manage to get the balance right. I didn't see the blog on the memorial, but I guess that asking an old dog to remove its hat for the funeral cortege was just asking a bit much.
Finally, I absolutely love The Marconium as a name. I don't think its too unintelligible at all. Its just a great word, and a fitting tribute. Which, I think, takes us back to where we began...
**Deep breath**
OK, here goes. I've had conversations with a couple of you this week about comments that are unacceptably abusive to the recipients. All I can say is that I hope the Jackson family aren't reading The 'Spill. Pot / kettle / black: you got me.
I draw on no reputable sources of knowledge of the entire WJ situation, and I emphasise this is simply my take on it. But it is a position I've hardened into for more than a decade, so believe me, it's heartfelt!
Leaving aside the vital, crucial even, issue of the causes, Michael Jackson the person was a seriously-damaged individual. Addiction to plastic surgery; sharing beds and alcohol with (someone else's) children; claiming friend-to-all status whilst hiding behind walls, masks, bodyguards and permanent sunglasses - these are not the actions of someone who deserves ANY, repeat, ANY positive press, let alone the current fawning of the world's media.
Whilst I don't doubt that being richer than Croesus can f@ck you up, I am always discomfited by any "story" that only exists to let the masses gawp at the riches, and what the owners do with it. When that wealth is used to buy-off responsibilities for criminal/immoral behaviour, it leaves a permanent foul taste in my mouth. Kirsty MacColl, anyone?
And I'm sorry, magicman, but the stats of WJ's charitable donations impress me not a jot. Precisely what percentage of his wealth, and more importantly, his time did he give, hmm? Compared to, say, Mrs A.Nonymous (retd.) who spends her time behind the counter of the Barnardo's or Shelter shop? WJ was merely an attention-seeking hypocrite, typical of far too many "celebrities". And I'm not doing a Victor Meldrew turn here, I am in awe of the efforts of those involved in, say, Comic Relief.
That Michael Jackson is the artist name on a large body of outstanding work in the pop music world is undeniable. But (and here's where I get myself in HUGE trouble) the infamous German Chancellor of the 1930s was also [BEFORE 1938] responsible for a large body of outstanding work. He was also a foul individual whose self-belief, backed up by a swarm of acolytes, denied him absolutely any concept of the wrong he was doing.
NO, I AM NOT BRACKETING WJ IN WITH AH, OK?!?!?!?!? I admit I may be exaggerating to force my point.
What I AM trying to do is give you a feel for my revulsion at the airbrushed, soft-focus, idolatrous coverage that the media is foisting upon us. The SAME F@CKIN' MEDIA (and tfd? I am aware of your aversion to my choice of curse, but am using it in your "save it for something really bad" allowance) that took great delight in "reporting" all the cringeworthy excesses of the second half of WJ's life.
Shameless, hypocritical, bigoted, self-important wankers (tincanman says I'm allowed to say that) producing so-called reprtage that - in particular - has no place whatsoever on a supposedly unbiased, fact-obligated, BBC TV News programme. And we've got YEARS of it to come in soddin' court cases. It is, as someone else has already said, going to be Dianagate all over again.
And as for the memorial service itself? Wrong on so many levels, I can't begin to cover them all. The coffin? Vulgar and obscene, and had no place being there. IT WASN'T THE FUNERAL, FFS! The allocation of tickets to individuals in countries that had no chance of attending? Hey, the press'll be good! But undoubtedly the worst offence of all was putting Paris on stage, let alone in front of that microphone. Christ almighty. I wish you luck, kid, because by God, you're gonna need it.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'd better go calm down. If you don't want me over on the mothership tonight, just say so. I'll take myself off to bed.
DsD, have you remembered to take your dried frog pill?
Well said DsD. Not that I agree with it all, but I think you wrestle well with a topic that rears its head here quite often - do we celebrate the music of people we find repulsive. Someone (magic?) was saying a few weeks ago he would never buy an Eric Clapton record because E.C. said something racist awhile back. Does that make E.C. any less of a guitarist? Obviously not. Does it make him any less of a person? Obviously, to most of us, yes.
What I like most about DsD's post is its spotlight on the media. First they made Wacko, not they want a Saint. Same guy; different day.
In the end he was a talented man with flaws, same as the rest of us. He died having done some good and some bad. I've not bought his records because I'm not contributing to MJmania, but my daughter loves him so I've got her a MJ video hits DVD to watch and sing and dance along to.
See you on the motherside DsD. You're always welcome.
Thanks, tin.
Kalyr, is that some sort of "croak" joke? Sorry, don't get it.
As for MJ jokes:
Difference between MJ & a shopping bag? One is white, made of plastic & dangerous to children; the other you can carry your groceries in.
MJ will always be with us, he's not biodegradable.
& anonnymouse was me, btw - hit the posty button too soon.
well thanks then. 'twas a good idea
Yvw.
Please give Mnemonic her db pass back (if she wants it). You've made your point. She's a feisty one, but that's one of the many reasons we like her so much. Hate to see anyone excluded for any reason (especially when they have a massive tune collection). I'm sure the 3rd party involved (whoever they are) will agree. Go on. Wave that olive branch!
Actually she's always had an open invitation to return as long as she follows the rules like everyone else. Its nothing personal and never was.
Thanks for peacebrokering - I don't want anyone excluded. But dropbox has to be used in a way that doesn't mess up other people.
Since buking is frowned upon over on the blog, I welcome DSD's comments here on Jacko, even though I'm a fan, disagree with them, and watched the memorial service as I would watch any funeral - it WAS like a public funeral actually, with Gospel music and the coffin and the priest.
I don't expect everyone (or anyone) to agree with my feelings about Jackson, but I felt sad, and still do about him generally - his death was just a final closure on a pretty weird showbiz life. But the music and the dancing were second to none at their best - and that includes Gene Kelly and Bing Crosby and Al Green and Aretha. He was a great entertainer. He turned himself white, but the black community reclaimed him at the end. And Stevie was still awesome.
And who actually cares about the media ? They have it both ways - he was fit and ready to go, he was eight stone bag of bones , on the same page of the newspaper. Truth > ? Whatever !
It's the music that counts on this blog and I will continue to nominate MJ songs if they fit the topic.
Never knew that Bing could dance, & everyone is always free to post whatever magic works for them & long may we run.
@DsD - It's a Terry Pratchitt reference.
@ Kalyr - thanks for explaining. Always makes a humorous quip fall flat when you have to do that, so my apologies.
@ magicman - thanks for a considered reply. Though it isn't necessarily my area of expertise, I agree wholeheartedly with your: "the music and the dancing were second to none at their best". There may even be DsD donds for the right RR nomination in the future.
However, re "He turned himself white, but the black community reclaimed him at the end". Hmmm, with some notable/honourable exceptions (Stevie Wonder comes to mind) the cynic in me can't get past the thought they only stuck their heads above the parapet once the sniping was over.
Anyway, I'm being dragged into exactly what I've been avoiding, so I'm going to leave Neverland for good now.
My two cents' worth: MJ was a badly damaged individual, but no-one around him seemed to care about that since they were all feeding off him. I did watch part of the memorial footage, and found it pretty tasteless. Liked the Steve Bell cartoon of the red coffin doing Thriller.
And btw, 'Spillers, there's no need to moderate the cuss words of your choice on my account. I've heard them all before. Can I change to agreeing with whoever it was who chose drivers who don't indicate, please?
@shoey - I'm clearly dyslexic aswell as a twerp cos I meant Fred Astaire...
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