Saturday, September 6, 2008

Don't know much about history...FP's historical playlist

I almost regret not having kept my Grace Darling story for this week as it would have fitted perfectly. But it gave rise to such a great thread that I'd like to say how much I enjoyed reading all your comments. Erudite and witty as ever...

Well we're "doing history" this week. I live in a city where two historical events took place which were to change our methods of communication forever. In 1440, Johannes Genfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg (that's Gutenberg to you and me) perfected and unveiled his printing press. The mass production of books became a possibility and thousands of scribes all over Europe suddenly found themselves out of a job...That's him on the right. Awesome facial aesthetic going on there...

Much later, in 1897, Ka
rl Ferdinand Braun invented the cathode ray tube here. This was the forerunner of the version which you still find in your domestic television set. That's if you haven't yet invested in a super dooper plasma flat screen, the kind that makes me salivate in our local FNAC. Now I have to say it looks just like the kind of glass beaker you found in your school's chemistry lab with some sort of bung in it. But, yes, this gadget allows you to watch 'The X Factor' every week. Yes you do.


Over to you: We're all scattered around the globe - we really should do a RR map of the world sometime. What historical events, battles or discoveries have you got in your area?



68 comments:

goneforeign said...

FP: Where I live there's a couple of mildly interesting historic details, the local town is Sebastopol, named because of the Russian population hereabouts during the seal fur business in the early 19th century, plus there's the Russian river close by and numerous Russian references up and down the coast. About 30 miles away is Drakes Bay, the place where Drake made landfall on his round the world trip, he named it Nova Albion [New Britain] He left England in 1577 with 6 ships, when he arrived here in 1579 via Cape Horn he had only one left, the Golden Hind, the rest had been either sunk or scuttled. The Hind was in such bad condition that he had it dragged ashore onto the beach and dismantled and then re-built. When that was done he continued westward across the Pacific, plundering Spanish ships along the way until he arrived back in Plymouth in 1580, a thirteen year voyage! When I was a kid the half penny coin had the Queen on the front and the Golden Hind on the back. Today Sir Francis Drake Blvd runs from the coast through San Anselmo and there's also Francis Drake high school and the St. Francis hotel in SF.
Possibly of more interest to Spill readers is the fact that when all those SF musicians of the 60's tired of the hustle of the city they all bought farms and ranches locally and many continue to live close by. About a quarter mile from my gate is a huge old antique store, it's just been bought by Tom Waits to be converted into a recording studio.

ToffeeBoy said...

fp - I was going to wait until listening to the whole playlist but I have pop in now and say how much I'm loving October Symphony. I don't care what all you tuogh boys think (chiz) - The Pet Shop Boys rock - it's offical...

sourpus said...

goneforeign, a certain amount of envy goes out to you this night. Russia worked well for me. St Petersburg was nicely unpredictable and fundamentally open to change - a bit like m'self in person, I would like to believe.

As you know, i'm temporarily resident (which somehow became 5 years, against every single odd known to me in @#$&$ years) in Budapest; birthplace of the Biro pen, the Rubic's Cube and "Gloomy Sunday" (the only song they say had to be withdrawn from the radio due to the number of suicides it inspired). Its also the home of the following horrors:

Palinka (drink) - just have a sip and you'll understand
Unicum (apparently, also a drink) - even more so than Palinka
Cradle of the maudlin Hungarian violin sound - fine idea in principle, but mired in tradition far too often
The most dangerous cuisine in central europe - fat content infinity, but better for stuffing yourself on than anything the dear slavs have yet perfected.

Also, surely. the true birthplace of the Hippy! Magyars were made for it! Their physical shape lends itself perfectly to the khaftan and the bell, much more readily than the boob tube and the micro-mini. Where the Russian is the perfect Sainsbury's apple, the Hungarian is more like organic produce. It may be better for you, but give me that perfect consistent, snaredrum-tight peel and unalloyed sweetness underneath everytime.

God I love being contoversial! Its a kind of hobby of mine. Hope y'all are forgivin' types(?) :)

Blimpy said...

I've never "got" Elvis Costello.

Just one of them things, I guess.

I always put his popularity down to the lack of interesting music available to those who were teenagers during 78-83.

ejaydee said...

There's a house near (formerly) mine in Paris where there was a raid by the Gestapo (I believe) for making forged papers, there's a plaque now honouring those that have been killed, which is all of them. And there's a house in Normandy with a cracked chimney floor because Ze Germans didn't think of chopping wood where they were supposed to, when they seized it while my grandparents were in the South of France, being neither heroes nor traitors, my grandfather having fought in both world wars (not much fighting in the second one, mind).
Finally, somewhere in the hill-y part of Cameroon, there's a miles long trench, used to stop the Bamoun people from invading the Bamilékés, of which I am. This needs to be archeologised(??) before it's too late, as the teaching of Cameroonian history is extremely poor. On the same hills, you could still find shells and scraps from the bloody insurgency against the French before independence.

TracyK said...

Lincoln is very rich in history, it's one of the reasons we chose to live here: how geeky are we? Famous, of course, for the beautiful cathedral, but the castle (once a prison: a fascinating place to visit, actually, so rich in gory history) also holds one of the original copies of Magna Carta. It also saw two decisive battles, including a civil war one and one with Mathilda fighting Stephen. Lots of military history in the area too, tanks were first developed here and we are surrounded by airfields. TE Lawrence wrote some of his Seven Pillars of Wisdom while stationed here, in a room above Brown's Pie Shop, which does cracking pies and has some cool ghosts! Our ghost walk is incredibly packed, even though you only walk around the top of the Bailgate!
Lincoln's really quite a cool place, even the gig situation is improving since the Drill hall and Engine Shed have become more popular. I still get a kick every time I see the cathedral perched on its hill as we drive towards the city. Shame some of the people are a bit, um, web-footed and insular, shall we say?

saneshane said...

my best friend lives just past Lincoln and I always find it the most spectacular to drive up the hill to the cathedral.. that is one hell of a hill to get back down when you've been snowed in for new year.. especially when you are used to the flat of East Anglia.

("Shame some of the people are a bit, um, web-footed and insular, shall we say?".....we have 'Normal For Norfolk' do you get 'Likely in Lincoln'?)

TracyK said...

We say "very Bostonian", which is just local snobbery, they are just as bad here, except they have Ideas. My bloke can't talk, he's from Suffolk and can't even say 'oil' properly...
We once walked round the cathedral on Xmas Day, non-one about and it had snowed! Magical! Our school gets to have its carol service at the cathedral and I can't tell you how misty I get. Misty until one of my form makes me so angry my veins start popping out, mind...And the Christmas Market! The carols and the mulled wine and the hot meat rolls! Joy unconfined!

DarceysDad said...

Never done Lincoln much, in spite of the fact my dad was born there and for some years my cousin ran the Turk's Head - he's gone to another pub in Dunham Bridge now, that I've never been to.

Donds for the feeling you get looking up to see a home hill, though.

And Tracy, where's me dond for The Sundays on RR, huh ??

Frogprincess said...

@ GF: From Drake to Tom Waites! Lots of local history going on there. And I now know where you are. I really would love to see a map of all our locations! I'm gutted, though, to realise as an adult that the Golden Hind I visited as a child in Brixham harbour was...a replica!! Is nothing sacred??
---
@ Toffee - it's absolutely OK to like the Pet Shop Boys as a straight bloke. Dorian loved them too. He interviewed them more than once I think. I was very jealous. That song is fabulous - it's from the Behaviour album. Hang on - I'll just see if it's all on deezer. 4 songs:
http://www.deezer.com/#music/album/7443
Glad you enjoyed it!!
---
@ Sourpus. I knew about that Gloomy Sunday song. Wasn't it in some way the inspiration for "Blue Monday". I read that somewhere. Unicum!!! I know about that too! It's undrinkable unless you put it in coke with lots of ice! Oh Lord - come to think of it, I may still have a wee round bottle of that somewhere in the back of the cupboard. I daren't go and check. I still read your posts on Budapest with some mystification - while totally recognising that you know the place from the inside. Warts and all, so to speak. I had a really great meal in the restaurant at the Hotel Astoria - foie gras and everything - which the Hungarians also claim they invented! And for a ridiculous price. Very cheap at the time. And I seriously like goulash too. If I lived there I think I'd stuff my face and then try and sweat it all off in the thermal baths. Which means I'd have recourse to Caftans fairly soon too...
---
@ Blimpy: I feel seized with evangelistic zeal now. Have you heard his recordings of/with Burt Bacharach? Or indeed the classic 'every day I write the book'? Anyone else with me on trying to convert Blimpy?
---
@ Frenchy: Like the forgery story. There were some extremely brave acts of resistance on the part of the French during the war. We have a concentration camp in the Alsace - the Struthof. Complete with a mini gas chamber just next to the restaurant where the Nazis used to eat. Utterly grim place and I wept buckets when I went there. When the Germans invaded the Alsace there was a young Frenchman, only 19 years old, who let down the tyres on the big car of the Gaulleiter - the regional leader. He paid for that with his life as they sent him to the Struthof.
---
@ TracyK and Saneshane: My Dad used to go to Lincoln on business a lot and loved the place, especially the cathedral which he always took the time to visit. And your ghost walk sounds right on - anyone ever tried to film the, er, phenomena?
---
@ Darce: I love The Sundays too so you can consider that donded.

sourpus said...

FP@ I wish I could uphold my usual sense of perspective regarding life in Budapest and one day, when its all behind me, I'm sure I will larf about it all.

Ghoulash, I like. In fact, many of the dishes here. And genuinely good quality cuisine in copious quantities is still significantly more affordable here than, say, in the UK. The wines are also almost uniformly genius - they are surely my favorite aspect of life here and I would honestly miss them - especially if I was back home. The countryside is also very sweet. As are the baths. If you can live somewhere for as long as this and find nothing to like, then I would suggest that such a person look to themselves for the real problem.

As a great believer in the attraction law, I am certain that I attracted the Hungarians and their current incarnation because, whether I accepted it or not, at the point when I moved here they were on my wavelength. Sometimes you are drawn in something/one's direction to show you about what you dont want, so you can more clearly tell what you do want.

That's my defense your honour and im sticking to it. :)

p.s. find the Unicum and throw it away before it mutates.

FP said...

Profound and I can relate to that. I will go back to Buda and Pest! And would be very grateful for any good restaurant tips! Where do you go for a nice dinner? And what's the music scene like? You must have some good venues..
---
Hang on, there's a green mist coming from under the kitchen door. Smells..eeeuuw.. like blocked drains. Give me a moment will you? Oh no way! Arrrrrgh!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

gordonimmel said...

When I moved to this house eight years ago there was still, at the end of my street, Rawfolds Mill, site of one of the more infamous Luddite raids in 1812 (it's a housing estate now). The mill owner used firearms to hold off the mob, a first, and a couple of people were killed.
A few miles away to the north east is the site of the Civil War Battle of Adwalton Moorin 1643, won by the Royalists, which then gave them control of Bradford. You can see why you would want to fight for it. You can see for miles in every direction from there (it's now the town of Drighlington).
There are also a couple of houses around here connected to the Bronte's, which were 'featured' in some of the novels (not sure of the details there tho')

sourpus said...

FP, what did I tell you! :))

There are so many good spots to try Hungarian food - my personal favorite:

http://www.nancsineni.hu/eng/index2.html

but turn the volume down slightly before you click!

Its a VERY nice place, tucked away behind where I live in Buda and the food is AMAZING!

Most visitors head straight for Liszt Ferenc Ter - a whole street of eateries right in the centre of Pest. Although the food quality (and the popularity, especially in summer) make it a nice experience for the visitor, the service is ultra slow and (frankly) everyone goes there, making it not that unique an experience.

The music scene? Not happening for me. Apart from the once a year festival known as the Island (Sziget) Festival (which can be a bit samey after a few visits) there would seem to be very little to report. Although my lack of interest may also play its part, I just havent found anything here worth talking about. I'm afraid the Magyar's are conservative with a small c when it comes to sounds. Shame really, coz there are so many musicians in town.

Hope you have better luck. Get in touch if you do decide to make the trip. It would be a fine thing to meet you in person.

goneforeign said...

Just a follow-up detail for the alcoholics amongst you, if there's any Californian wine on your supermarket shelves it probably came from right here; this is generally referred to as 'wine country'. When I moved here a dozen or so years ago I discovered the word 'microclimates'; the weather can change in very few miles, not dramatically but cooler or damper or windier etc. the vineyards take advantage of these differences and plant varieties of grapes that do well and of course they market their products stressing their locations. There's two counties, Napa and Sonoma, that are the main wine growing regions. When I moved here it was the tail end of an apple economy, there were orchards as far as the eye could see but they've all been ripped out and replaced with grapes. It's a lovely quiet place to live but I still miss LA where I lived for 40 years and if you want 'local history' LA abounds in it, it's a really interesting and huge city with so much to offer.

snadfrod said...

Where I live (for just three more weeks precisely, actually...), Caherciveen, is most well known as the birthplace of Daniel "The Liberator" O'Connell, the first Catholic to sit in the Houses of Parliament and so on. He had a house round the 'ninsula at Derrynane, which is now a very fine museum and nature park. I think that this birth is a better claim to fame than the village of Castlemaine about 40 mins away which has a sign by it saying it is "Birthplace of the Wild Colinial Boy". Personally, I wouldn't shout about it...

Then there is Valentia Island, which I can see from my window, which is notable for two things - it was the site of the first transatlantic cable station, established in 1857 with a wire running all the way to Newfoundland. Also it is home to the 'Tetrapod Trackway', which is supposedly the oldest fossilised evidence of four-legged creatures walking on earth. It is, in all honesty, a massive massive disappointment.

And then, of course, there is the Skelligs. Two enormous, mountainous sprigs of rock, standing up from the Atlantic, the larger rocks, Skellig Michael, has perched atop it a sixth century monastic site, on which the crazy bastards would live, trading only with passing boats and living off fish, gannets and heck knows what else. In the year and a half I've lived here, I'm yet to get out to visit the rocks. Time is running out...

Limerick, where we lived previously, has a great and bloody history associated with it, but scores most points for having set itself up as a Soviet in 1919. Ace work.

snadfrod said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
treefrogdemon said...

Kirkcudbright, where I live, is a very ancient settlement and has stacks of history...something with an international(ish) flavour happened in 1778 just across from my house - John Paul Jones, the 'father of the American navy', sailed up the river and landed on St Mary's Isle where he was hoping to take the Earl of Dunbar hostage so he could swap him for some American prisoners. The Earl not being at home, he had a bit of a run-in with the Countess, who seemed like a feist kind of woman - but she lost all her silver, because JPJ's men wanted some loot and he wanted to get away without any fuss. However he later retrieved it and sent it back to the Countess, which I think was rather nice of him.

People living in my house (which I think was there at the time) would have seen the ship and heard the commotion!

treefrogdemon said...

that would be 'feisty'...

gordonimmel said...

@ treefrogdemon, my family own a holiday house just along the coast from you live (I think I may have mentioned it before) which is within walking distance of Arbigland, Kirkbean, where John Paul Jones was born and brought up. There's a nice little museum in the supposed house where he grew up, but the surrounding gardens have now, unfortunately, been shut off from the public by the new 'get-orrff-moi-land' owner.

treefrogdemon said...

Hi Gordon: yes, you did mention it...I took my American daughter-in-law to see the museum earlier in the year - we found the museum man rather over-talkative but the recreation of the birthpace was very sweet. My own Scottish ancestors would have lived in much the same way, with the box-bed in the living room.

And I've been in the gardens, because a friend of mine used to live just along from there (next to the House on the Shore) and she took me.

FP said...

@ Gordon: who exactly were the Luddites? For me it's a word which just means "a bit slow with new technologies" but I realise there is much more to the term that that...
---
@ Sourpus, having fought off the Unicum monster.... I'll certainly get in touch if I make it over!! And thanks for that restaurant tip - I remember going to two restaurants in Buda. One was in a nice garden with a wrought iron gate and the other was indoors with a wacky string ensemble. The bass player (old Jack Black and no charisma) gave me the eye all evening and put me off my food - much to the amusement of my dinner companion.
---
@ GF. If I didn't live here, then the Napa Valley would be my idea of heaven. Tell me you've seen the film 'Sideways' about the region and wine and wine tasting...If not, we have to club together and buy it for GF for Christmas...
---
@ Snadfrod - The Skelligs look fabulous. I've found a photo of the hut on one of them. I could survive on there if I had a good WiFi connection. Otherwise...
---
@ TFD and Gordon: Jean Paul Jones was clearly a gentleman... or the feisty Countess made an impression on him. We'll never know... And how do you pronounce Kirkcudbright? Not the way I imagine...
---

FP said...

Just an up-date: we have a nice local legend called the Lambton Worm. It tells of how young Lord Lambton went fishing and caught a large worm-like creature which he threw down a well. Years later, Lambton came back from 'foreign wars' to find his lands and farmers terrorised by a huge creature which ate their sheep, cows and even children. Feeling responsible, Lambton took it upon himself to slay the worm. I'm gob-smacked that deezer has a great version of the song written to commemorate 'brave sir John's deed'. This really is Geordie folklore and yet it's on there. I've added it to the list.

treefrogdemon said...

fp, Kirkcudbright is pronounced Ker-COO-bree - the original Celtic name was Caer-Cuabrit, but the Christians came along and thought it ought to start with Kirk (Scottish for 'church'). Obviously the locals carried on using the original name, and so we have this mish-mash.

snadfrod said...

@TFD - Have you ever read/seen Translations by Brian Friel? Ties in a lot with all that stuff about the naming of places. For example, an Irish example - dun na Gaell menas, in Irish, 'Stronghold of the foreigners'. The British (hi!), however, had that rather ironically changed to the meaningless, but 'Anglicized', Donegal. It really fascinates me.

@FP - the Skelligs are my current quarry, before we leave here. However, it just ain't that simple. Its an hour boat ride there and back and they are always busy cos the weather (especially this summer) so rarely allows it. If I do make it there, expect windswept photos ahoy!

FP said...

TFD - cheers. Sort of thought so.
Snadfrod: Love to see the photos - very dramatic and picturesque location. Hope you make it...I love place names too. Lots of them from round our way from old Norse.

gordonimmel said...

@treefrogdemon, I've been in the gardens myself aswell, about three years ago, but when frauimmel went with tessimmel last year (I was away working at the time) they were told basically to 'get orf moi land')

@frogprincess. 'What exactly were the luddites?' Now there's a question! I've a book infront of me which tries to answer that question ('The Luddites - Machine Breaking in Regency England' by Malcolm I Thomis)and I'm sure there are many other worthy tomes about it. To summarise, 'The Luddites' weren't a single group of people although the government of the day tried to paint them as such in order to introduce extra security measures against them and to try to claim that it was all about outside agitators, nothing to do with normal workers because they were all deliriously happy with their lot (hmmm, where have I heard something similar more recently...). Basically, in a world where Unions were banned the Luddites (named after a mythical leader called Ned Ludd) were men who were scared of losing their jobs to the new fangled machinery coming in at the time and who took direct action to stop it. There doesn't seem to have been a single movement, just a general unrest accross Lancashire, Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire in the first couple of decades of the 19th Century. It was simple industrial relations.

FP said...

@ Gordon: Fascinating! I have been a Luddite myself recently and for the same reason. Am I the only person utterly pissed off that the airlines are making us check ourselves in using those smart new machines, smilingly presented by a customer-friendly member of staff? They do realise that it's cost and personnel-cutting, don't they? Tell me they do! For the price I pay for my air ticket I want a HUMAN BEING to deal with me and print my ticket for me. Call me a luddite...

gordonimmel said...

Oh, and I meant to also add that John Paul Jones was actually a bit of a rascal, maybe a lovable rascal, rather than a gentleman. Christened John Paul he was the sort who escapes to sea as a lad and he had sailed in the Carribean and the American Colonies before a rumour of a murder/manslaughter charge forced him to add the 'Jones' to his name. Nonetheless, he threw his lot in with the Americans when they revolted (steenbeck is cheering at this point) got the use of a ship and, using his local knowledge of the Solway Firth led a couple of audacious raids in the area (treefrogdemon's previously described Kirkudbright raid and another on the English side at Whitehaven). He then raided around the British Isles before his famous moonlight battle of Flamborough Head (Yorkshire), where he captured a British ship despite losing his own ship 'The Bonhomme Richard' which had been donated by those meddling Frenchies ;-). And that's why he's known as the Father of the American Navy' (Post Note: I read recently that they're having another go at finding the wreck of the Bonhomme Richard off Flamborough).

gordonimmel said...

OK frogprincess, if, like the Spen luddites I mentioned earlier you want to meet in a pub up the hill from the target, gather reinforcements from the surrounding towns (places as exotically far away as Leeds) before descending as a mob to demand that our air tickets are checked manually and ticked with a biro, I'm with you!

treefrogdemon said...

John Paul Jones also had a go at the slave trade - until he became disgusted by it.

goneforeign said...

FP: You're a sweetie, but I did see it, another Virgin Atlantic treat, but thanks for the thought. Sonoma has a coastline so it's prettier and cooler than Napa, in either place visiting the vineyards for on-the-house tastes is a local pastime, there's hundreds of 'em.
TracyK: my dad was a Gothic cathedral fanatic, he'd visited and studied every one of 'em, I enjoyed going with him and Ely and Lincoln were favorites. Since we lived in Suffolk with relatives in Yorkshire we passed through Lincoln often and usually paused for another quick look. I think Durham is the only one I haven't seen [yet].
And a thank you to FP for another post that's generated a lot of interesting comments.

saneshane said...

@tracy
"We say "very Bostonian", which is just local snobbery, they are just as bad here, except they have Ideas. My bloke can't talk, he's from Suffolk and can't even say 'oil' properly..."

glad my friends moved to the north of you, not Boston.. but their son got told off for not saying 'cup' correctly.. he was six and quite bright and lived all his little life in Bournemouth (you can't get much more southern),
"mum, they think I should say cup like what a chicken lives in!"
and that's not a joke it really was what his teacher opinion.

as for Suffolk speak.. Born in Boxford. but the Norfolk dad whisked me out of there before I got tainted!
(that is a joke)

TracyK said...

Shane, as an outsider and a recent convert to the *ahem* joys of following Ipswich Town, I was fascinated to see my bloke go a very funny colour when we had to drive through Naaaaaaaaaarwich on the way to visit his parents in Cromer this summer. I am banned from buying anythign yellow or green too, good job blue suits me really!

DsD, amazingly, the Turk's Head sits on the corner of Newport and Cecil Street, which we actually lived on till last November! How strange. We're now 20 minutes further along Newport but can still hear the cathedral bells on a still morning. I grew up in a suburb of Tamworth *spit* and so Lichfield cathedral was a popular history trip for schools. I remember being told off my my choirmaster for scoffing a Twix in there shortly before we were due to sing: he claimed chocolate was bad for the vocal chords". that can't be right, can it? Anyhoo, despite my heathen tendencies, I do love a nice bit of ecclesiastical architecture. Ely's lovely too, especially the connected buildings behind it. Lincoln's got one of the oldest inhabited buildings in the UK, Jew's House on the Strait on Steep Hill, some very nice Norman arches on that GF, some great bits on Aaron's house near the top too.

And FP, the lady who does the Lincoln Ghost Walk encourages people to take lots of pictures, especially on Greestone Stairs, a crooked, narrow and steep cobbled lane leading from just behind the Bishop's Palace down onto Lindum Terrace. There's a mysterious looking arch halfway down and some old-fashioned and dim lamp-posts, which only seem to show exactly how dark and scary it is down there. She says that she gets many photos emailed to her that show shadows, orbs, mist or just blackness where nothing in particular seemed to be. Google Greestone Stairs for some very atmospheric pics.

I'm spooked now, I don't want to venture onto the dark landing: halp!

steenbeck said...

I didn't think I had much to say, being in America, but Gordonimmel's post prompted me to respond. I live pretty much halfway between NYC and Philly right on the Delaware river, and this area featured quite famously in the revolution (George Washington crossing the Delaware...Have you seen the painting? that was here) and apparently he holed up on a farm in town for a while. But it's just all so COMPlicated. I suppose I would have supported the rebels during the revolution, but look what became of it all. We were colonizers, really, weren't we? And disastrously so, for native Americans. And now, when we demonize people in Iraq or Palestine for fighting their oppressors in the way we still worship colonial heroes for...well, what the fuck?
Sorry. I just find history so confusing.

saneshane said...

tracy.. you should have seen the colour my dad went in 78 when I told him.. "well I was born nearer Ipswich and they play better football..."
I was 8 years old I needed the roof over my head.. I'm stuck with the green and yellow.
Cromer has so many memories for me, my nan lived in East Runton till a little while back..Weird that I pop through every two week now for work.

Steen I always find it amusing when people here go..
England for the English..
yeah right, pure blood from where exactly?
Celt and Norse for me..great mix.. my skin can burn seeing if the toast is done.

GothyTheFat said...

Saneshane - I never forgave Ipswich Town for beating my beloved Arsenal in the 78 Cup Final - it was the first (and last) time I had ever had a bet on a football match, too. On the other hand, I had to share a house in London with an insane Canaries fan in the early eighties, which left me unimpressed with East Anglian football in general...

Tracy - I have visited Lincoln Cathedral, but I still managed to miss the story of Little St Hugh (though I do remember the imp). For a long time I belonged to a church choir that spent a week each summer singing the services in various cathedrals. Alas, we never did Lincoln, though I have sung in Norwich, Ely and Peterborough at one time or another.

FP - On the subject of French history, can you or ejay enlighten me as to why there's a station on the Paris metro called Stalingrad? I've wondered since I first saw it thirty years ago. I'm sure there's a good reason out there somewhere...

TracyK said...

Gothy, I don't think that too many people know about LSH's shrine, as the treatment of the Jews of Lincoln after it happened is a horrible and shameful thing. It was a place of pilgrimage but as the Wiki entry points out, he's not really treated as a martyr these days. The imp and the Da Vinci Code connection are the really publicised things at the cathedral. Ironically, now that my form aren't obliged to go to the carol service in December, they all want to go!

TracyK said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sourpus said...

FP@ So many restaurants in Buda fit your description - 'Nancsi Neni', mentioned above (lets call it 'Auntie Nancy's'), is where the Range Rover/Porche Jeep owning Buda-ites tend to head for - mainly because they get the service/quality curve pretty much bang on - but in a place like Budapest, you should never let the clientelle influence you or put you off - you have to explore.

gordonimmel@

Actually, I will just throw in a point about The Luddites - specifically Ned Ludd. Our history teacher told us the same, that he was a fictional character, but apparently not so. He was, many would have it, one of Leicestershire's village idiots!

The story goes that Old Ned Ludd (could have been Ludlam) set about two Stocking Frame machines with a hammer in 1779. Word was passed down that he was merely a simpleton who had no political notion and only a will to destroy property and upset people (a kind of proto-New Brit if you will). Being an Anstey lad (that's a posh-ish village not far from the famous Bradgate Park National Trust site) you would think he would have known better. Still, he was an inspiration to many - 1977 for the Luddite punks began in Leicestershire!

Tatankayotanka said...

@ sourpus ... you are making Budapest sound very attractive ... I might have to conjour up an excuse to visit,.. oooh maybe this is it ..

http://www.jegyelado.hu/index.php?page=rendezvenyek&rid=2624

Possibly not your goblet of Palinka?

What's the weather like at the end of January?


@ treefrogdemon ... does the Kirk thing also apply to Kirkcaldy? ... Jackie Leven's just released a song which rhymes Kirkcaldy with Showaddywaddy ;)

sourpus said...

tatankayotanka@ And I was trying so hard to be nice about a place I cant wait to leave! :)...but good on ya if you fancy a visit; for tourists, it can be exciting maybe. Just dont follow my example of finding yourself stuck here without a paddle. Actually, ive made it my business to fashion my own paddle in the last couple of years, which I am currently water testing...(Did I mention that Jackie Leven is an acquaintance of mine; tried to get him a gig here in BP but - one more reason for my lack of faith in what it has to offer - I could get arrested).

sourpus said...

Sorry. that was meant to read 'couldn't' get arrested... Anyway, you get my drift(?)...

Tatankayotanka said...

@ sourpus ... I've got a couple of Van Der Buddies in Bratislava so a trip for the show is a distinct possibility. I was in Prague in 1992 when Peter Hammill played there for the first time; there might be a little multicentre minibreak on the cards.

Incidentally, did you see that Jackie is playing in Vienna this time next week? just about do-able for an evening out from Budapest, no?

treefrogdemon said...

Tatanka, Jackie's quite right - Kirkcaldy does indeed rhyme with Showaddywaddy. But I think it's just cos they talk funny on the east coast. (Eh, Blimpy?)

ejaydee said...

Gothy (finally another Gooner), my guess is that the station, and the square, is named after the battle of Stalingrad in WWII.

FP said...

And I would concur with Ejay! Wow guys - talk about picking up the ball and running with it. Wonderful contributions this week - we've been all around the world and into the tardis to travel back in time! Thank you so much!

Shoey said...

@Blimpy 78-83 was a golden age of all kinds of wonderful stuff to listen to. Agree that Elvis may be a better songwriter than performer, but Alison, I Want You & other tunes still stand up & King of America is a great album.

Erm, we have Epcot & Gatorland. Where's me coat?

GothyTheFat said...

FP, Ejay - I'm sure you're right about Stalingrad, but I've never understood why a battle the French had nothing whatever to do with should get its own metro station. There might just as well be one called 'Kursk' or 'El Alamein' or 'Okinawa'... Oh, well. I could try writing to M Delanoë, or maybe the RATP, I suppose. Or maybe I just won't bother...

FP said...

Just cos I want to be number 50!! Gothy's right actually. I suppose it's just admiration and the desire to commemorate the great Russian resistance during the siege. That's why they named the metro station Stalingrad. I'm just reminding myself how utterly wonderful Mr Costello is ready for my onslaught on the unwary Blimpy. Christ what a lyricist as well. 'Good year for the roses' has just made salt water stream down one cheek. THAT good.

FP said...

And I agree with Steenbeck that history is downright confusing. We can't judge the past by today's standards so it all becomes very hard to weigh up...

ejaydee said...

Ah I see the point of the question. One possibility is that the 19th arrondissement had a Communist mayor at its head, or it's just a fact that the Germans lost this battle. The is a Place de Narvik, named after the battle too.

sourpus said...

FP, I agree with you that Elvis's version of Good Year is genius, but its not a Costello song. Have you heard George Jones' original? Respect to Mr McManus (and to yourself) but Georgie-boy is the cat's pyjamas when it comes to hanky time and no mistake.

Actually, notwithstanding Blimpy's examples above, plus a good few more besides, I have always found Costello a little too 'knowing' to be make my top ten songwriters. Its like you can see the join. A masterclass (witness the album 'North' for one mad example) but sometimes a bit like a semiotics lecture; rivetting at times and often revealing, but still a semiotics lecture at the end of the day. You can call me old fashioned, but I feel slightly self-conscious losing it to the rythms of that kind of self-aware groove.

The albums he made with the Attractions were the ones that have stood up the best.

(I actually, totally and literally fell asleep when I went to see him on the Punch the Clock tour as a kid - never done that since for anyone; except maybe Cesaria Evora. But I also wept buckets during 'Tramp the Dirt Down' at Glastonbury 1987!)

sourpus said...

tatankayotanka@ Nobody told me JL was coming to Vienna. It is very doable from here as you say - I'm on that one then. Thanks for the tip off!

alimunday said...

I live near a place called Deadmanstone, being a comer-inner I assumed it was the site of an old gibbet but it was in fact the route that pall bearers used to take to carry coffins from the village to the church in the valley. There are also lots of old mill ponds around our area, left over from the textile / dyeing industry which thrived in Victorian times - they are now usually tucked away in unexpected places and have become havens for wildlife. Apparently (so the locals say) a little man used to come around with a cart, collecting urine for use in dyeing cloth - he was called Ali the Piss (cue much hilarity as I am his namesake). Hey ho.

goneforeign said...

Ali: Where is Deadmanstone?

DarceysDad said...

Ha! Then I drive (down on the main road) past your house about once a fortnight, Ali, and I'm due to be running a course within a stone's throw of you as soon as the customer confirms!

Tatankayotanka said...

@ sourpus JL's at Chelsea, Wien on the 15th ... and on great form if the Borderline and subsequent gig reports are anything to go by. He's touring both the new CD, Lovers At The Gun Club, and the new Sir Vincent Lone album, Troubadour Heart .. so double bubble ... go get some ;) If anyone else on the European/Scandinavian circuit wants to join in, then check dates here.

http://www.jackieleven.co.uk/live-dates.php

FP said...

@ Sourpus _ while totally admiring your analysis, I still love him. You CAN see the joins, I agree. But the craftsmanship is still there...
---
@ Alimunday. Dying to ask if people ever told him to "stop taking the piss"... They shudda....

alimunday said...

Hi Goneforeign and FP - deadmanstone is on the outskirts of Huddersfield, West Yorkshire. I'm not sure if it's the name of the area or the name of the road - locals refer to it as if it's an area but it's on a street sign as if it's a road. nearby, there is a huge rock where John Wesley is supposed to have preached at some point. FP - he evidently did stop taking the piss as no one has ever knocked on my door and asked for any!

FP said...

... And is it pronounced Dead-Mans-Stone or.. Dedm'ns'tn?

alimunday said...

FP - Dead-man-stone I think - Hangingstone Road is nearby but that is just named after the big stones everywhere that sort of 'hang' out of the hill (honest).

alimunday said...

Darceys dad - just read your post -do wave as you go by, though I shall probably be in Leeds ... what courses do you run? BTW The Golden Fleece does a decent pint of Jennings but the Liberal Club is cheaper ...

DarceysDad said...

@ AliM -

Hmmm, wonder if my old membership card for Milnsbridge Liberal Club would be OK down there ...?

I've running a FLT Instructor course at a new customer somewhere twixt the Red Lion junction and the Somerfield traffic lights.

Frogprincess said...

You guys should meet up for a pint. Really. And have one for me!

gordonimmel said...

'ere, Darceysdad, alimunday lives closer to me than to you.
Maybe we should pick up on fp's suggestion....

alimunday said...

gordonimmel and darceysdad - pint would be good but am tied with work and sprog - it's my (shh) 50th next feb so am planning on having a few beers somewhere that's child friendly - can post it nearer the time and perhaps you coud come along with family / sprogs? My sprog is 6 so the challenges of finding a child friendly venue with good beer in february are going to be interesting ... FP, you are welcome too but it might be a bit of a trek!!

FP said...

Too kind Alimunday! Raising a cyber-pint to you gentlemen!!