Saturday, November 21, 2009

'Spill Housekeeping


Hey 'Spillers,

Believe it or not, there exists a big, red, "delete blog" button.

The reason I stopped posting over on GU Music was because I was fed up with all the trolling and BS that went on - that was well over a year ago, and if this blog degenerates in the same way then I won't hesitate to press that very button.

Blimpy.

Let's discuss this in the comments, please.

45 comments:

steenbeck said...

Sorry blimpster!

goneforeign said...

I'd like to suggest that all those who've contributed to this post read through all the comments and think about what was said.

TonNL said...

Hi Blimpy, can imagine how you feel being a 'global moderator' on another web-forum, but 'delete blog' would be a quite drastic, and for many people (like me) a quite sad action, as I enjoy my time here, as this is in general a nice, good-natured weblog, maybe there is also some smaller orange 'delete topic' button that you can use when you feel a topic develops/degenerates into something you don't feel appropriate to your weblog...., feel free to use that: it's your blog!

cauliflower said...

Yikes. Just finding a little moment after weeks of hard bloody graft to pay for the exploding boiler, I come back and find steam hissing from every Spill orifices. I'm so sorry for all involved - it's horrid to hear challenges to one's existence, and extraordinarily painful too to find you've been the origin (if I've got the right end of the stick) of the dreadful mess.

As a set of fresh eyes in that thread, I didn't think anyone was trolling - just making sincere, risky and heartfelt attempts to communicate notoriously difficult ideas and feelings. Hitting a delete button is Blimpy's right, but I would urge you not to - I'm one of those who believes we need to defend to the death people's right to say what they need to say, and it's our duty to try to understand, connect with them and bridge the gap. Myself, I don't really believe in "race" but in culture.

I feel for all involved. With love...

tincanman said...

My apologies for sticking my nose in. I shall take a deep breath in future.

Abahachi said...

As I've said before, I tend to think of the 'Spill as a pub, serving decent beer at a reasonable price, where we're all sitting round a big table discussing and arguing and switching records on the magic jukebox that allows each individual to choose what they listen to - and yet I can hear everything that's going on, which isn't the case in real pubs. Most of us are good friends - again as I've said before, I see more of you lot than I see of most of my supposedly 'real' friends, and like most of you more - but the atmosphere is generally friendly and welcoming, even if sometimes a bit cliquey.

What we've had is the sort of argument that can break out even - actually, maybe especially - within a group of friends when it becomes clear that we don't have every view in common, and may indeed hold quite different principles on some matters. The argument gets heated, various unfortunate things are said, some others get sucked in and some sit on the sidelines feeling embarrassed.

There is a risk that some relationships will be damaged and some people will stop speaking to one another as a result; it's equally possible that we'll get together next morning with a headache and let matters lie. Maybe we'll feel nervous about certain topics for a bit, maybe not. But I don't think we'll solve any of this by blowing up the pub.

Also, I don't think it was trolling; that's the random drunk wandering up trying to start an argument.

How exactly am I managing to be quite this incoherent and sentimental at 8 am?

tincanman said...

Good analogy Aba

nilpferd said...

Reading through the last two weeks' worth of posts, there have been a bafflingly large number of barbs and ill-tempered exchanges; some based on misunderstandings, some as a result of ongoing feuds, and some have just been WTF is going on here?!
It's been a tough year and I for one have been under a lot of stress, so perhaps some of us have brought a bit of a clenched knuckle attitude on here without realising it.

In the interests of getting the 'Spill back on track might I suggest each of us considers the following -courtesies-..

1. Remember that your personal tastes aren't shared by everyone, regardless of how universal you consider them. Respect each other.
2. If you must whinge, please try to do it in a humourous way. Personal gripes are best dealt with per e-mail with the intended recipient. Complaints about RR belong on the RR thread. And yes, we've all had solid gold A-list suggestions rejected. We just don't all feel the need to share this information.
3. Remember there are many ways to misinterpret things.
If someone is offended by something you've written, please first make it clear that this wasn't your intention. If it was your intention, best delete your post and continue the discussion, if necessary, via personal e-mail.
4. If you are offended by something you've read, first query the intention of the poster and make it clear you've found something objectionable. An exception in the case of our persistent taiwanese travel guide; here frequent and extreme kneejerk abuse is welcome.
5. Please keep feuds, personal sniping or ongoing disagreements off the 'Spill. Blimpy has everyone's e-mail address so there is plenty opportunity for communication outside the blog, if you really feel that strongly about things. Once again, spammers are fair game.
6. Try to keep a sense of perspective in terms of what we can discuss here- academic discussion of controversial themes can only really take place with recourse to literature, footnotes, quotes etc. and isn't very well suited to a blog of this sort.
7. Please don't insist on having the last word. Logically, if we all do, threads will never end.
8. Bear in mind that this is first and foremost a forum for exchange, sharing things we are passionate about, and fooling around. It isn't intended to document the essential history of 20th Century music and it (probably) won't be hard bound and pressed into the hands of knowledge-hungry kids twenty years hence.

Keep it loose, people.

.... said...

Good morning to you all. I read Blimpy's post and thought "Oh my God what's going on?" Instinctively scrolled down to the EOTWQ and saw the exchanges. I'm simply going to take the tack - with a bit of distance as I wasn't directly involved in the exchange (which I regret) - that a bit of perspective might help here.
---------------
We've now had over 2,500 posts (yes really - look at the stats. I've been in virtually from the beginning and from memory it's the first time things have become so heated. That in itself is a achievement of which you can all be proud. The atmosphere on the 'Spill is by and large is one of tolerance and good natured debate.
--------------
Secondly, the subject which caused the exchange was not a minor niggle or a disagreement in taste, it's one of the BIG THEMES in the music (and incidentally the film and TV industry too) - links between violent media and the effects on society. And I also recognise that there was the related theme of black culture and contribution to music which got wound up in that. Again, I'm not commenting as the thread is closed. It's not surprising that such a big and emotive subject (violence in music) raises the temperature on the 'Spill. It would be kind of abnormal if we all remained lukewarm and 'meh' about it. These are the kind of subjects that raise hackles almost naturally. Please don't think I'm belittling anyone's opinions or feelings but I would be kind of worried if this kind of subject didn't raise emotions. It's much bigger stuff than my television purchases or penchant for chocolate, obviously. We're all living, breathing beings and the EOTW thread proves we're not brain dead. You can be proud of that too and of the fact that you people did not actually degenerate into a slanging match of real insults. Read it again - you all stayed reasonably courteous in spite of a clearly high level of emotion.
-------
I support Nilpferd's very wise set of ground rules and would urge the Spillers involved - my own personal Hip Hop guru (without whom I would never have listened to Ghostface) and partner-in-disco-and-all-things-French, Ejay (que j'embrasse tres tres fort) and GF whose witty and round the world experience I regularly enjoy to let this one go. There's a real family atmosphere on the 'Spill and this felt like a family row in lots of ways, although the subject was a BIGGIE.
-----
Have a lovely week end.
-----
Oh and Uncle Blimpy, please don't pull the plug on us just yet...?
FP

AliMunday said...

Wise words from Abahachi, Nilpferd and FP.It is remarkable that we all get along with each other most of the time, and it would be a shame to lose that, although I completely understand Blimpy's view. As Nilpferd said, keep it loose!

CaroleBristol said...

Please don't pull the plug, Blimpy.

I thought that things got a bit out of control on EOTWQ so I didn't carry on reading.

We need this blog, it is a joy to be part of and we really owe it to ourselves to keep it going.

Anonymous said...

Bearing in mind that he eats crocodiles on a whim, I say we listen to the Hippo...

Chris said...

I agree completely with Aba and fp's analysis. Whilst in theory it is easier to say what you mean if you're able to type and edit before you actually say it, it is still surprisingly easy for an emphasis to come out wrong or be completely missed by someone reading from a different perspective. The Way Of The Hippo seems, yet again, to be the path to follow. Whilst a Spill Rule Book is something to run several miles from, those guidelines seem eminently sensible.

Blimpy: you do an excellent job of keeping all this going. Thank you for that and for raising the warning flag. Hopefully, that in itself will encourage folks to be a little more circumspect.

ejaydee said...

Hello everyone, I agree with everything that's been said so far. I apologise for the turn things took, even though it was all civil if you read back, (I like to think that's a credit to the 'Spill frame of mind), it did feel very unpleasant. I was actually thinking last night about some rules, but I only came up with one.
If an argument isn't resolved in 3-4 comments, take it outside of the 'Spill. This way it doesn't pollute the blog.

Blimpy, I'm gonna need a picture with that blog post! ;)

TracyK said...

Bloody hell, I try to escape from a beyond tetchy week at work to be confronted with quite a horrible situation on here. While I understand the opposing points of view expressed on QotW, I think we need to just calm the fuck down and practice the Way of the Hippo a bit. Gutted, as they were ace questions, as usual...

nilpferd said...

Thanks, people. Chris makes a good point re rules- we're all adult enough not to need a rigid set of behaviour regulations, and I'm not suggesting we need one.
My list of points was made in the sense of "why not keep this in the back of your mind in the interests of conflict avoidance".
That of course doesn't preclude having a hard hitting discussion about a thorny topic, as FP says, but the participants need to be prepared to step back if things get too heated, or at least to work out perceived slights as they arise.

I personally feel that it is possible to discuss any theme without either feeling personally slighted, or needing to attack others, but as a dispassionate swamp dweller with a hide thicker than a mattress and an extremely large set of jaws I can perhaps allow myself the luxury.

nilpferd said...

It's also worth pointing out that Barbryn's EOTW thread is not the only thread where tempers have become frayed.

There have been a number of other threads over the last couple of weeks which have contained what for my tastes have been unnecessary personal attacks, and I'd appreciate it if this was stopped.

TracyK said...

Does that mean I can call you a big-mouthed fat-ass?

Forgot to say, Blimpy, please don't take down the Spill: passionate people (read obsessive weirdos) are bound to disagree from time to time, and I think we can all count the bad times as very minor incidents compared to the camaraderie and what Hardy called "loving kindness" usually on display here.

FP said...

Perhaps we're all a bit tired and tetchy at the end of the year - I certainly am. Just came outta the Krankenhaus ferkrissakes. Perhaps we should all take up tennis and thrash it out on the courts. Any takers??The 'Spill is not the place to take out end of year grinchiness. Agree with the Hippo... (cuz he'll swim over the Rhine and swallow this frog if I don't as an aperitif :-))))

nilpferd said...

Feel free.

Just don't walk on my back.

I get angryif you walk on my back.

nilpferd said...

Not very keen on frogs- same texture as swamp-weed. No offence intended. I like a nice crunchy croc, though.

Hope you're cured, FP.

FP said...

Alles wie beim alten. Paletti. In Ordnung und diverse andere Ausdruecke in dem Sinne....

tincanman said...

Careful FP, he could have his Hippolator turned on. Better to use a series of hand signals.

FP said...

Well I thought of sending a carrier pigeon but on current form he'd only eat it washed down with a nice New Zealand Chardonnay....

tincanman said...

I might go for a red with a working bird. But I take your point.

nilpferd said...

I'm going to throw the cat among the -well- pigeons here, and say I'd actually prefer a Central Otago Pinot Noir to go with that particular bird.
Glad to hear you're in good health, FP.

Effing Pee said...

Well hope you got a bottle of that in for tonight. We're racletting - although it still feels a bit too warm to tell you the truth. We'll need a nice rustic red to cut through the cheese - a haut medoc should do it. We're off to buy the telly! Tee diddle dee diddle dee dee!!!!

Abahachi said...

Sounds lovely. I've got a nightmarish cocktail party type event in prospect, as Mrs Abahachi plans to dish out cheese and wine in return, she hopes, for hefty sponsorship for her planned London to Paris cycle ride in May next year. Obviously I'd be by her side, in shocking pink lycra, if it wasn;t for the fact that I'll still be teaching (and giving a talk to the local gardening club) at that point. Anyway, raclettes sound a lot nicer...

Chris said...

Er, is everyone OK with fp being a self-confessed raclettist?

Mnemonic said...

I'm one too!

Makinavaja said...

Heartfelt donds to all of this. Aplogies also for having:

a) moaned about RR lists here and not addressed to the issue over on the mothership
b) got involved in the Hip Hop handbags that overshadowed Barbryn's great EOTWQ's.

gremlinfc said...

Very good points and as someone who at times manages to rile people , (usually unknowingly)I endorse them all. I do feel it is absolutely NOT on to make disparaging comments about individuals per se - tastes and opinions should be shared and discussed / argued about , but as soon as we start to say "YOU are this or that" then the level drops and it's not acceptable. NO ONE is "fair game" as it appears at times and no matter what we perceive of each other , it's got to be kept outside this realm. As I said yesterday on another post please send insults to gremlinfc@homail.com don't do it in public.
I don't dislike anyone on here , and as in real life will pass the time of day with most people -(though there are some weird and wonderful tastes which entertain)) and enjoy reading everything and have discovered lots to like. Keep the debates going but don't get personal.
(yep, we all learn...if anyone's thinking what i think you're thinking...)

gremlinfc said...

@Chris - I must say (and I know you don't like Caps...) - I HATE RACLETTE!
@froschprinzessin - ich hoffe, es geht dir jetzt besser - gute Besserung und alles Gute aus der Stahlstadt.

treefrogdemon said...

Well, if we can follow the Way of the Hippo without actually going IN the swamp, then...

EffPee said...

OK back from telly land. 32" Phillips. Beeyootiful. Only problem now - and you can see me coming here. I don't want to do a raclette because I want a TV dinner so we can sit and play with the telly. Hum. Cheese or pixels, that is the question....
----
Graemli - alles wieder OK - danke Dir. Wir haben uns diverse Sorgen gemacht - war aber grundlos. Gott sei Dank.
----
Nilpferd - in your honour, guess what DVD we used to test the sound and vision? Did you hear that snare drum?? Broadsword calling Danny Boy!!! The sound's so good that you and Gremlin will probably hear us from where you are ho ho

nilpferd said...

@Treefrog- no problem, Hippo lite program will get you started nicely sans swamp. Though when I see this kind of adulation, I feel you could return to your roots.. most beautiful and most wonderful!! Didn't anyone think to take a photo of a beautiful fluffy hippo?!

@FP- wondered what that noise was- there was a demo in town, but no firefight that I was aware of..

Exodus said...

It has all been a bit fraught recently hasn't it?

Keep the playgroup open, Blimpy, we're pretty good at sharing our toys & playing nicely most of the time & the odd little 'over-tired moment' usually sorts itself out.

steenbeck said...

I've had a day to think it over and all I can say is sorry sorry sorry sorry. I'll try to keep my big dumb inarticulate overly emotional american mouth shut from now on.

Catcher said...

I posted something a while ago that went way off beam from what it was intended, too. I guess it's human nature that there would be an element of conflict here, particularly when we're all discussing something we feel so passionately about, but it's been few and far between, so maybe it's best if we acknowledge these instances as the anomalies they are rather than try to enforce a shiny happy code on people? One caveat; disagreeing is fine, being a dick isn't.

Shoegazer said...

I'm confused, thought one of us had to press the red button every 90 minutes - oh, that was series 2 of Lost wasn't it?

ToffeeBoy said...

4 8 15 16 23 42

Whatever you do shoey, keep pressing that button!

FP said...

.. Lady S - NONE of those adjectives apply to you. Have a lovely Sunday with the family. FP

ToffeeBoy said...

@ fp - well, 'american' was accurate enough!

TatankaYotanka said...

The day The Spill went postal and I wasn't there ;) Had a bit of a catch up and am glad to see the balm above taking effect.

Me, I'm all for a general adoption of the WOTH combined with a touch of Serenity Now. I was aiming to become a Reiki Master but couldn't commit to the training; I could however still set up a booth in the corner of The Spill and do a bit of aura combing as and when ... strictly unlicensed.

May1366 said...

So........is the right room for an argument?


Didn't I pick a grand old week to be off-line!