Tuesday, November 24, 2009

BOLLOCKS INDEED!

BOLLOCKS INDEED!
You sure know how to set the right tone for your participation in any discussion, totally appropriate for your comments on the topic.
This has been my worst weekend in memory, I feel devastated by the response to my recent post, I thought that I was amongst friends here but the manner in which some of you chose to pile on the invective has revealed an aspect of your natures that I never expected. I made some mistakes apparently, you feel that the word 'race' is an unacceptable descriptive word to describe a group, would you have preferred 'Negro's' Would that sit better with your delicate sensibilities? "How the mighty have fallen" is a biblical quote that I thought appropriate to the case that I was presenting given the unbelievable list of world-wide talents, lost, to be replaced by 'what'? Hip-Hop? You chose to attack that rather than deal with my main concern which was the reality of the ghettos in this country, not a single comment was concerned with that. A dozen murders in three days in Oakland, meditate on that.

I shared that post with three black friends this weekend, they all endorsed it totally, two adding the reservation that they were concerned that their own teenage kids were actively emulating their hip-hop heros. From my perspective, living where and how I do and being somewhat aware of some of your circumstances, your lifestyles and where and how you choose to live, I find it disgusting that any of you can, from those perspectives, call me a racist.

And re. the 'piling on', it's not new here, when I posted some months back a question re the mathematical odds of three A lists to the same person out of literally a thousand plus nominations from hundreds of posters, which then keeps happening almost every week. My question was totally ignored, the first comment accused me of denigrating members of this community though I'd made a deliberate point of not doing that but the first to comment chose to ignore that and to attack me, then the rest piled on repeating his words and ignoring my question. 'Herd' mentality is commonly used, I prefer 'flock' mentality.

I was again disturbed by the vicious tone of the comments here when I recently made a casual suggestion that Ms. Fydo would be an interesting guest, and I was more disturbed when one of the group deliberately invited her over to read the vituperation.

And this week it's happened again, none of you have dealt with my main question, the relationship between hip-hop and ghetto violence, you chose instead to, as usual, attack and denigrate the messenger, and then of course you accuse the messenger of denigrating you. In Blimp's 'housekeeping' post I suggested that those who'd participated in this disgusting episode should re-read all the comments and then reflect on them, I hope they have.
I no longer feel comfortable here, to say the least, so I won't be back. I have friends here and if they want to stay in touch I would welcome that, my email is readily available. Obviously everything stated here isn't applicable to all.
Adios....

19 comments:

Chris said...

Other than 'please re-consider', I can't really think of the right thing to say, gf.
You and I share some musical taste and interest in a number of cultural and political areas and I always find your opinions and reminscences interesting. But there have been a small number of occasions (and you refer to a couple) where I have done a slight mental recoil at the words you have used.
I don't believe for a second that you're a racist or that you relish confrontation but I can see how others - especially on delicate subjects - may have interpreted your words in a way you didn't intend. Tone of voice is so difficult to convey in a typed post.

I think Blimpy's WTF? post was the opportunity for all to re-read, reflect and move forward. I do hope you will change your mind, gf. If not, feel free to use my email address (presuming you have access to it). At least let me know what you think about Living In Oblivion. (The film, not the condition.)

ejaydee said...
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barbryn said...

goneforeign - also hope we can turn that "adios" into a - whatever the Spanish equivalent of "au revoir" is. I think we'd all miss your contributions.

For what it's worth, I think you're being oversensitive. The way that we try to agree with all the people all the time on RR is a wonderful thing, and marks it out from 99% of blogs and forums on the web. That makes it awkward when anyone expresses an opinion that the rest of the herd/flock disagrees with - but I really don't think you should take any of it personally. Tone of voice is notoriously difficult to gauge online, too.

gremlinfc said...

Dear GF - i read with interest the whole debate and as i am sure you are aware have been critical of this genre myself , the difference being that i really do love the music and did not condemn it wholesale. My use of the B-word was not to you,as in you should go B*******, but a sort of exasperated exclamation after I had taken the time to list some quality hip-hop tracks(which is what i thought you'd asked for) , but your reply was a bit dismissive so i just thought "blow it" (as nanagremlinfc would have said). Apologies if you thought i was telling you to do one. I also hope you read my posts re. the public criticisms of Fyodora. Knowing that and my unfortunate experience (self-inflicted maybe...)earlier this year , on this same forum , i have to say i completely agree with any sentiments that any personal insults must not be allowed. It happened to me again just a few days ago where someone decided to remind me how much of an "undesirable" I am on here.
i have also thought like you. But It's up to all of us to pull this thing in the right direction though. Any kind of public humiliation is best avoided. Clearly we all don't like each other, but as i am often reminding me own kids - just avoid the people you don't.
I have faith in people - i just hope we have faith in each other.
Give it another go - there are some wonderful people on this here cyber thaang...

Makinavaja said...
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steenbeck said...

I'm sorry that you want to leave, Goneforeign, I've enjoyed your contributions over the years. And I'm sorry that you had such a bad weekend.

I read this last night, and I've thought about it a bit, but maybe I'll put it all in an e-mail.

Japanther said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TracyK said...
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debbym said...

I really really really don't want to get involved in this (there's currently a lot of bad feeling coming to a head in the community I live in, and I DON'T need it on here, too), but I fear this thread is doing exactly what Blimpy asked us not to. I think any further comments should be sent directly to the people involved at their private email addresses - and I wish that advice had been taken before this was posted.

With a nod to Fagen and Becker:

Blimpy don't hit that button!

(Sorry, couldn't think of appropriate lyrics for Toto)

TracyK said...

Thanks Debby...

Shoey said...

Wow, Debby, that's some stroke you have! (Festive picks please, asap).

goneforeign said...

Sorry to be so slow in responding but things got a bit busy around the homestead this weekend, first off my thanks to Chris, Gremlin and Barbryn, apart from the email comments it seems like that's about all the discussion this topic will get, sad about that. Sad also re. 'the been and gones', I did see your comments but only briefly, didn't have time to thank you. Debby, I don't think you did your friends any favors, this current business is totally childish and a far below anything I'd ever expect from the Spillers I know, I suspect there's a lot of unseen names sitting on the sidelines feeling totally embarrassed by this silly turn of events, should the history of the Spill ever be written this will be the nadir, you should be embarrassed. And Debby, don't you think it odd that you don't even take your own advice?
It should be obvious without my saying it that this turn of events was absolutely not what I intended when I revealed my feelings for hip-hop, I'd kept them to myself for years here but it seemed like the appropriate time to 'come out' , one lives and learns. I'd hoped to generate a clash of ideas but unfortunately it rapidly degenerated into name calling instead. So it goes.
Chris, Gremin, yours are two of the emails I don't have so if you could email me that'll resolve it, Chris, I came across this in the G, just in case you missed it, check:
http://www.eveningstarbrighton.co.uk/brewery.php

and Gremlin, also just in case you missed it read the blog here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2009/nov/25/ten-top-uk-brew-pubs

'Tis the season to give thanks here in the land of the free etc. and I have so much to give thanks for, so to all my friends at the Spill, happy holidays and all that if I don't see you.
It has indeed been fun.....T

Shoey said...

GF, your comment to Debby wasn't kind - she was only trying to avoid anymore bad feeling on these pages, yourself included - thoughtful comments were taken down for the same reason. It is the season of goodwill; please show some.

This whole episode reminds me of my cousin, who likes to get into a "debate" with my uncle about how great Canada is compared with the US. It's best to avoid these discussions - nobody wins, everyone loses. But we're always family.

For me, hip-hop is like the blues: artists expressing themselves about the environment they find themselves in. This, unfortunately, often includes drugs, guns, gangs & bad language. If some of the messages of hip-hop had been listened to & acted on the LA riots might have been avoided. The underclass is still (barely) alive and with us. If hip-hop helps some find a way out - all power to them.

TonNL said...

"I won't be back"
Posted by goneforeign at 1:54 AM

"Sorry to be so slow in responding"
goneforeign said...November 25, 2009 10:49 PM

...that is breaking your promise within 24 hours....

TracyK said...

Many of us are silent because we are embarrassed for you and we hoped you'd calm down. Apparently not.

goneforeign said...

I'll leave you with this one, it just made me chuckle.
I was just sitting in the recliner nursing a glass of brandy and Chris's comment about liking a taste came to me out of nowhere. It was followed my my comment about getting horticultural again and that was followed by this memory.
I've enjoyed relating odd incidents from over the years so here's a last one, sorry TonL, turn your eyes.
Many years ago in southern California I went to the local mall, 'twas the week before Christmas, approximately. There was a concession set up in the center of the mall that would 'gift wrap' your presents in a sealed tin can with a suitable Christmasy label. I had an idea.
I went home and grabbed a decent amount of ganga, quarter-half a pound in a baggie, it was homegrown super weed. I went back to the mall, paid the guy and he gave me the tin can, I adjourned to a quiet corner. I filled the can with my baggy plus some crumpled paper and a bag of sand just to give it some mass and took it back to the counter. He sealed it up and labeled it. I didn't like the Santa label so I replaced it with the label from a 2lb can of peaches,
The following week I flew to UK, to my sweet old momma in Suffolk actually. We went through the usual greeting routine and as I unpacked I gave her her Christmas present, 'Oh peaches, how lovely' she said. It's your Christmas present I said, 'Open it now.' Of course she demurred but I prevailed and she got the can opener, 'What's this then' she said as the packaging fell away and soon it was very apparent, 'Is it marijuana?' she asked her eyes lighting up, 'cos even as a comprehensive school principal she'd enjoyed a joint when she visited me in '66, the summer of love when we'd driven up to SF together, she even wore a flower in her hair. She was by then pushing 75+ but she still enjoyed a toke and she now had a year's supply.
Toodle-oo....T.

TonNL said...

Hi gf, didn't turn my eyes away: great story!
Hope your brandy is as good as mine at the moment: enjoying a great Cognac Frapin (...not the 1888 vintage, alas....), cheers from Holland!

TonNL said...

ps. it's a cognac Frapin V.I.P. X.O.

goneforeign said...

No, mine's local brew, Korbel, from a vineyard about 10 miles away, basically good, especially at $13 per 2 litre bottle. Glad you liked the tale, what I should have added is that she was so proud telling all her old age pensioner friends about her Christmas present.