Monday, September 28, 2009

Acorns. Trees. Fall.

Blimp's reminiscing about listening to records with his Dad reminded me of playing chess at the kitchen table with my Dad and listening to his records: Johnny Cash, Odetta, Janis Joplin and Stan Getz were his favorites, along with some Buffy Sainte Marie, Jefferson Airplane and Andres Segovia. I think there was some Leadbelly in there too. This was when Michelle My Belle was on mom's radio in the other room, so on reflection he knew his music.

My Dad and I had a complicated relationship, as some of us do. For those who also did, or do, I thought I'd share some Hank Williams Jr with you. (I have kids of my own now, and I may not be the best Dad in the world, but one thing I have not saddled them with is big footsteps lol).

Hank Jr, very briefly, collapsed under the weight of expectations and in later middle age made peace with his demons and dead father. Most of his songs are autobiographical, and brutal in their honesty at times.

The Conversation is from his A Tribute to My Father album.
Long Gone Lonesome Blues was one of several early Hank Jr songs to play on the word Lonesome. I wanted to post his 1969 hit Standing in the Shadows (of his father), but I don't have it.
There's A Tear In My Beer is a virtual duet by Hank and his dad.
A Whole Lot of Hank and Family Tradition speak for themselves.

UPDATE: Standing in the Shadows arrived by overnight post. Typically it's not very deep or poetic, but it's all on his sleeve.
I know that I'm not great
And some say I imitate
Anymore I don't know
I'm just doing the best I can

After all I'm standing in the shadows
of a very famous man
.

89 comments:

steenbeck said...

Tin, oddly timely post. David is playing chess-like games with the boys, we're listening to Elvis Perkins while you were sleepinng. If you haven't heard it, I predict that you would love it. It's about familial ghosts. Thanks, Shane.

I have such a prejudice about hank jr, mostly based on kd lang's version of family tradition. So I'm really looking forward to a bit of education when I get home

tincanman said...

That little remote cam I sent you disguised as the Tower of London is working a treat.

I have an Elvis Perkins but only gave it one quick listen, so thanks. I shall revisit.

tincanman said...

pawn to queen 4

barbryn said...

Music my parents played when I was growing up:

1. The Beatles
2. Bob Dylan
3. Paul Simon (& Garfunkel)
4. Radio 3 in the mornings
5. The complilations dad would make from taping "Folk on 2"
6. "Band on the Run". Also, Paul McCartney's "Tug of War" and "Pipes of Peace"
7. "Oh What a Lovely War" OST
8. "Joseph" OST
9. Dory Previn - "Mythical Kings and Iguanas" (once I was old enough to hear the word 'fuck')
10. The Traveling Wilburys

I've made this into a top 10, but mostly it was The Beatles and Dylan. I have a lot to thank them for.

DarceysDad said...

The few records my parents had lying around when I was young were almost entirely compilations or 'Best Of's, including:

Simon & Garfunkel
Buddy Holly
Elvis Presley

and as used for my best A-listing bet this week
Eddie Cochran

But Radio1 was a constant companion, particularly on Sundays, so I suppose I picked up most of my early music from there.

The only other real contributor was the jukebox my grandparents had in the pub. When they moved from The Portland in Cresswell to The Old Ship in Worksop, something broke in the jukebox mechanism, and from then on it would only play the singles along the first quarter or so of the rack. So it got left in the unused Concert Room of the pub, and for YEARS we'd play in there to a very limited selection of singles that included Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep, Hold Your Head Up, Band Of Gold, Son Of My Father, Gypsies Tramps & Thieves and yes, RR fave Ernie, The Fastest Milkman In The West.

Japanther said...

my Dad was a big big Dylan and Beatles fan too, but a parental separation when I was pretty young meant that most of the music disappeared from the house too.

There was an old Hendrix C90 tape legacy from my Dad and quite a lot of Phil Collins if i remember correctly. My favourite of my Mum's 7"s was "Uptown Girl" by Billy Joel, which I still hold responsible (along with The Karate Kid) for opening my eyes to class inequality and the fundamental cultural differences between the uppers and the lowers....something i'm still pretty obsessed with..

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
treefrogdemon said...

Music my parents played while I was growing up? Hmm...that would be 'none'. My father could play the piano but hardly ever did; he'd been in a piano duo during the war called Rabbits and Lawnmower (a prize for whoever knows what that was based on) so would occasionally play a wartime tune. The piano got woodworm and was dismantled and burned (the rag-and-bone man took away the metal parts) in about 1960, and my father didn't seem to miss it. They had an album of 78s but no record player...when I was finally allowed to buy a Dansette of my own to support my growing Everly Brothers habit, I played the 78s out of curiosity; the only one I liked was Les Compagnons de la Chanson's Wild Geese/Jimmy Brown.

Chris said...

I don't know if I'm envious or not: my folks listened to Perry Como, Matt Munroe, James Last, Sing Something Simple and a bit of Frank or Bing. That's as cool as it got. The songs that have etched themselves in my head from childhood are 'Magic Moments' and 'Love Letters In The Sand'. Oh, and my Mum had a penchant for Frank Ifield and his delightful yodel.

At least it left the field open for me to explore....

TracyK said...

In Dad's record collection: The Moody Blues (I especially liked the cover to Every Good Boy Deserves Favour), The Strawbs, Caravan, Yes, Queen's A Night At The Opera and Day at The Races, Jeff Lynn's War Of The Worlds and Tighten Up.

In mum's: The Four Tops, The Temptations, Otis Redding, the Grease soundtrack, Barbra streisand's Guilty, and a huge stack of 7" by Sam and Dave, Aretha, Dusty, The Walker Brothers (both of whom mum saw play ina showcase night), and then she carried buying Abba, a smattering of disco, a startling amount of David Soul, right up to the early 80s, when I started buying stuff and she kind of gave up.

Having a fraught relationship with dad, I always favoured mum's music. I do remember actually being scared of the Yes cover (a very green one) but I did like Queen. My dad had been a proper mod, and liked Cliff Bennett, Small Faces and lots of ska, though his entire collection was stolen from a house party just before he met mum. He does a fantastic white man skank at weddings and sometimes funerals. Actually, for a big chunk of my childhood dad played in bands, I remember seeing his play our local working men's club when I was about 10, all Hi Ho Silver Lining, 2-4-6-8 Motorway and Nights in White Satin.

My uncle had some fabulous folk gatefolds: Steeleye Span's Below the Salt and the one that was an optical illusion, Fairport Convention, Simon and Garfunkel. I was bombarded by music as a kid, it was unthinkable that I wouldn't grow up to be just as passionate as my parents.

nilpferd said...

I definitely got my love of music from my dad; jazz lps and classical radio, plus the odd jazz radio selection program. It is still a thing we can effortlessly share. Although I took different things from the music; Miles Davis appealed to me very early, and Cannonball's soul jazz, and the fusion-lite of the late seventies, whereas he was more into the fifties small groups of Mulligan, Giuffre, Art Pepper, and Oscar Peterson, as well as mainstream big bands and vocalists, and hated fusion, plus was always suspicious of the "Davis cult". Though I'm coming full circle, now, catching up on some of the things he liked which I'd rejected as too mainstream. I never listened to pop or rock music until I had my own music system around age 14, but I got sick of it by the time I got to uni and had switched over to indie, and it wasn't long before I came back to jazz.

Catcher said...

My parents never seemed to have specific tastes, apart from the '60s in general and a few artists in particular - The Beatles, Patsy Cline, The Carpenters, Roy Orbison - but there was always a radio on, and whenever a song one of them liked, say 'House Of The Rising Sun', came on, it was always turned up and I was always exhorted to listen. So I did. I think I owned more records by the time I was 10 than my parents combined, but just having music around as part of my everyday existence as a child is probably why it still is now. And while I still love those artists my parents loved, I like that my own tastes also took a screaming left turn into artists like MBV or Lightning Bolt or Royal Trux that they find unlistenable. Not as rebellion, I have no idea why they developed as they did, it's just nice to know I myself built on what my parents gave me, the same as I would hope any children I might ever have would do the same. Can't wait to hear myself say to them, 'But that's just noise!'

steenbeck said...

Well.....as I've said many a time on here. My mother is a classical musician. I grew up listening to classical music. My mother was a classical music snob to rival any indie music snob (or any other kind of snob I have ever met). She despises with withering disdain any performance of classical music that does not meet her standards. She would rain derision on a lot of the people that derisively post classical music on RR and seem to be trying to belittle the rest of us. (okay, you know who I'm talking about). With one frown and well-worded retort, she could make them feel like everything they'd ever known about classical music was embarrassingly, trivially WRONG. (she's a humdinger - blessing & curse)

My dad had two albums, as far as I can remember. They were Sgt. Peppers and Magical Mystery Tour. Now I know you know that I don't like the beatles, and I think a lot of it stemmed from listening to these as a child and thinking that these sinister songs about clowns and dead dogs were just completely terrible. They scared and depressed me. So...

Sorry this is sounding so negative. I love a lot of classical music, more than I could talk about here, and I have my mom to thank for that. I think I was just responding to the absurdly condescending posts that crop on RR from time to time.

goneforeign said...

Well, mine was a totally different kettle of fish, my dad's musical taste began and ended with Puccini, Verdi and the Soviet Army Chorus, not that we had any records nor the means of playing 'em. Beyond those I had no musical influences whatever but early on, around age 14, I discovered Louis and New Orleans jazz but there was only one source for jazz, the weekly 30 min BBC Jazz Club, every Saturday from 6 - 6.30pm and every week as I sat with my ear within an inch of the wireless I'd hear 'Turn that bloody noise down!' My only other option after my RAF service was a short wave receiver next to my bed with a pair of headphones, I'd listen to Voice of America with Willis Connover or AFN from Wiesbaden with AirBoy Holly B into the really early hours every night.
So I don't really now how this obsession developed but it did. My jazz tastes evolved through Louis to Ellington, Basie and and some of the mods and settled with the Kansas City and NY crowd, Lester, Bird, Basie, Miles, Ben and Bean and Billie et al. But come the mid 60s everything changed, the Beatles and the Stones erased all that jazz and jazz didn't help one bit by playing dead. 'Free Jazz' didn't help one bit either! So I went into a 'pop' phase for a few years 'til in 1972 BMW released 'Catch a Fire' and it was all over for jazz and pop and Puccini for the next 20 odd years! Since Bob died I've returned to jazz but maintained and developed my interest in classic reggae and 60's -70's pop and quite a bit of classical and blues and African and S. American and various other 'world' musics.
And Steen: You must give the Beatles another go, they changed the face of pop music forever, they're basically wonderful musically and lyricly, keep trying.
Plus I don't think neither he nor she on RR are at all condescending, both are trying to introduce another element to the mix and I look forward to their posts each week, I wish they'd join us here.

tincanman said...

OMG goneforeign, nooooooooo. We do NOT need the recent chestthumping of RR on here. You can't say anything over there these days without a handful of predictable responses and the ensuing long thread of defensiveness and self-justifications. Please lets not encourage that sort of stuff over here too.

ejaydee said...

Phew, for a while there I thought your mother was fyodora....scary.

goneforeign said...

I think Fyodora is wonderful, though I wouldn't want to be married to her, she might be my first wife incognito. Wish she were here. [Fyodora]
But I do enjoy her style and erudition and she's fearless, and the other bloke who does opera, I like him as well, he could come also.
It's all in the wonderful game....
ps; I like some of you lot too.

ejaydee said...

I don't remember names so much, or who listened to what. I remember my mother loving Boy George, in her Hare Krishna days. I know my father was a big soul fan in his youth, he saw James Brown, Sam & Dave and others in concert in his youth, probably at the Olympia. I found out looking through his vinyl collection that he liked Cameroonian guitarist Francis Bebey. My mother was definitely into her classical, and tried to make me into a classical music knowledge trivia freak. Legend has it I could hear any piece and tell who composed it. The truth is probably that there was a choice of Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi and Brahms. She also likes the Beatles (her favourite is George), she also likes her James Brown. Maybe their tastes aren't that different, which is why I can't make a clear distinction.
I'm not sure who liked Georges Moustaki. Funnily enough it's my father (who's white) who seems to listen to more Black music, mostly American but also African (mostly West, with a bit of Miriam Makeba). I think he's probably responsible for my taste for "world music" Now he's become Mr 100£ Man, he's the kind of guy who'll read a review and buy a CD, and often I'll end up with it, sometimes because "it's too rappy for me". He's gone mad for the Putumayo compilations, I'm sure he's bought some of them twice.

nilpferd said...

It's funny what they'll take and when.. I managed to get my dad to listen to "In a silent way" once without him grumbling about it going nowhere or having electric instruments, but we were both fairly well plied with malt whiskey at the time.. I also managed to get all the way through Guru's Jazzmatazz with him, without even having to use whiskey..

steenbeck said...

Goneforeign, I think it's wonderful that people are talking about classical music on RR. And I always enjoy the discussions. However, I'd probably enjoy them more if they weren't occasionally presented in a way that labeled the entire RR population as uncultured morons for not talking about classical music on a blog that really has nothing to do with classical music. Or maybe I'm feeling sore because my nominations seem to cause special distress about the depressing state of the world in certain quarters. Or maybe I'm just reacting to a lifetime of trying to share music I love with a disapproving audience.

And funnily enough, I had a roommate in college that loved the Beatles, and I simultaneously had a crush on a boy who was a Beatles fan. So I listened and listened and listened to all of her albums, hoping to like them...

Nilpferd - Jazzmatazz! impressive. I remember one boxing day playing PE for my parents. Heh heh. What was I thinking?

nilpferd said...

I think some RR themes suit classical music more than others, I recommended a few pieces myself this week, but it's true that a few of those putting forward classical pieces are very dismissive of most other posters, which I also find disappointing; I do try not to diss stuff I can't stand..
@Steen- I can remember one abortive early attempt, during my "hit radio" rebellion phase, of trying to play this
this to explain myself when I got caught fiddling with the dials on the radio.. greeted with a stony silence.. I still like it actually, it's got that "get into the groove" 80's bass and Lionel Ritchie guitars.. niiice.. hey, where's everybody gone?

Guys?

Oh well. Back to the cricket, I guess.

ejay said...

" Or maybe I'm feeling sore because my nominations seem to cause special distress about the depressing state of the world in certain quarters. Or maybe I'm just reacting to a lifetime of trying to share music I love with a disapproving audience."
Donds to that.

treefrogdemon said...

steenbeck, I was just thinking as I did my dond list this morning of how you are the one with the widest appreciation of different kinds of music of all of us, and of how much I enjoy reading your postings even if they're about music that I don't especially like that much.

And I bet there's more people who agree with me than there are those annoying scratchy people, so there.

ejay said...

I love that song nilpf, the only redeeming feature from that film, apart from the comic value of THAT dancing scene of course.

nilpferd said...

Ditto what Treefrogdemon said, except more often than not I do enjoy the music.
Let's hear it for the Steen, lets..

I just put my back out.

Thanks Ejay. Your Pangaea can be picked up at your leisure.

tincanman said...

What's soured me about RR lately isn't as much the what is being said but the how. Respect and tolerance seems less valued than point scoring - only by a few, I hasten to stress, but it makes one not want to post because it'll just get hijacked.

These things come and go though. Lots of fun to be had here in the meantime.

Next week - song's our aunties liked.

tincanman said...

Oh yeah, and forgot all the aren't I cleverness.

(I wasn't clever enough to say that before lol)

But I don't want this to be a thread about RR or other people, so 'nuff said.

All this about what our parents listened to sure gets one thinking about what our kids will be saying about our music collections, doesn't it? I remember my Dad had a couple hundred records at best, and that was a fair number back then. Now of course our collections don't have to be as selective as our parents' were and kids can get whatever they want to listen to, so it may all be moot. I listened to whatever Dad player or whatever I could get on the radio, which out where we lived wasn't much.

I was thinking while I typed and by rights should delete, think, then type but ... nah. Nothing like a live show lol

treefrogdemon said...

Oho! You should hear Matt on his musical upbringing!

tincanman said...

go on then

treefrogdemon said...

Can't ask him now, he's at work. But it's very favourable.

ejay said...

Sorry Tin, you're right. I've filled my little sister's iPod, as well as my niece's and iguess I'll do the same with my kids, which means maybe we'll have even more influence on what they listen too. Although there's a difference between "cool" uncle and embarrassing dad.

tincanman said...

well you (and steen) have filled mine with some neat hip hop, so you can be my cool uncle

nilpferd said...

Modesty prevents me pointing out *ahem* who Ejay's funky uncle is..
I've tried not to overload Mara with my music, she's picked out the bits of it she likes- Kind of Blue, Grant Green, The Chills, Electronic, Die Sterne, Beethoven, Grant Mclennan- and has actually introduced me to Mozart via a children's program for which she insisted on getting the accompanying cd.. it's cool when she comes to me and says "play that piece which goes da-da-dum-dum-dum.."

Chris said...

1. The problem is as steen and tin put it. Nominating any type of music for RR is obviously perfectly OK but there's no need to try making others feel inadequate when you do it. However, with sowc keeping her in check and almost everyone else turning the other way, I don't think we'll get back in the naughty corner again.
2. I never forced my son to listen to the GD or any other of my faves (I just hoped it would work by osmosis) and, all by himself, he acquired a taste for Ice-T, LL Cool J, Public Enemy.... Did I go right or wrong?!

steenbeck said...

Thanks, TFD, for your kind words, and Ejay and Nipferd, too.

Sorry to lower the tone of your thoughtful post, Tinny.

I was just thinking about what our boys would say about our taste in music. They have definite favs already. Right now, in fact, Isaac is fascinated by a video with a little boy in a top hat.

Maybe he's no romeo, but he's my loving one man show..oh...oh...oh.

steenbeck said...

"They're doing cool dances"

nilpferd said...

go for it boys..
I can still remember the frustration of trying to explain exactly what it was I loved about that track, it just hit me in the right place. Nice to hear it again. Though there is a danger in giving our kids access to oldies..
I did warn Mara last night, if she does a school year in NZ when she's 17, and takes The Chills, The Ruby Suns and The Clean with her, all the other kids are going to think she's a nutcase...

goneforeign said...

Well obviously you lot are far more perceptive than I am, and since it seems to be fairly unanimous I must accept it, but I haven't picked up on the qualities that you describe. I'll read more carefully next week.
On a different topic the one thing that jumped out at me when I first read this list of comments was that everyone's father/mother loved the Beatles, Dylan, Paul Simon etc. I was genuinely shocked, 'Their bloody parents....' That really put the 'generation gap' into perspective, I know I'm the oldest inhabitant around here but your parents for christsakes. Seems like the Beatles and Dylan et al were only yesterday...

nilpferd said...

My parents absolutely hated Beatles, Dylan, Simon etc.. they liked Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, Gerry Mulligan, Paul Desmond, The Goons, Danny Kaye, The Marx Bros. Does that make you feel better? ;-)

tincanman said...

You don't lower the tone at all, steen.

RR's got us being all spooked

Makinavaja said...

My parents only had one LP. Hoagy Sings Carmichael. (Not a bad one to have if you're only going to have one). Dad went to a Hoagy concert in Manchester sometime before he married Mum in 1958 and I think this was his one link to his (probably not so) wild bachelor days!
Music was almost absent from my childhood home and it wasn't till the late sixties and pocket money that I was able to buy the odd ex-juke-box single at a little shop in town for a 10 or 20 pee. We didn't have a telly so I couldn't watch Top of The Pops so my early teenage listening was limited to Radio Luxembourg and Radio One (radio under the pillow in bed)and my selective memory tells me this was all T Rex, Bowie and Slade but of course it wasn't! By 1977 I had a paper round and was 15 years old so gigs and LP's became a part of my life.I became a part time punk and developed a regrettable anti-everything-else attitude that lasted into the eighties.
I finally grew up and learned that you don't need labels or "cults" to enjoy music. In fact I know I didn't really start enjoying music, for music's sake, until I stopped pigeon-holing it. Now my tastes are so broad as to be almost indefinable. Hoagy sits alongside The Clash on the shelves of my office (I work from home a lot of the time)who snuggle up next to some frankly obscure flamenco artists and they all seem to get along fine. All I ask these days of music is that it make me FEEL something and that of course means that absolutely ALL kinds of music stand a chance.
All the dissing, fighting and condescension that has happened over on RR lately has saddened me greatly. I hope I haven't contributed in any way and apologise if I have.

ToffeeBoy said...

My parents were big fans of Elvis Presley, Cliff Richard, Matt Monro, Frank Ifield, Roy Orbison, The Everly Brothers and others from that era. Anything outside the late 50s/early 60s was not really on their radar although my dad has expanded into Simon & Garfunkel and The Beach Boys - and, although you might think it odd, The Proclaimers, but this is almost entirely due to the Hibs connection.

As a family, we listened to Radio One all the time. Sunday evenings, listening to the top 30 was one of the highlights of our week - one of the rare occasions when we were all together - so my brothers and I were exposed to pop music from an early age. We gradually worked out for ourselves what ticked our particular boxes.

goneforeign said...

Steen/Tin: Allow me to quote both your comments:

" I think I was just responding to the absurdly condescending posts that crop on RR from time to time. "

"However, I'd probably enjoy them more if they weren't occasionally presented in a way that labeled the entire RR population as uncultured morons for not talking about classical music on a blog that really has nothing to do with classical music. "

" We do NOT need the recent chestthumping of RR on here. You can't say anything over there these days without a handful of predictable responses and the ensuing long thread of defensiveness and self-justifications."

I assume we're all talking about FeistyDora.
I just went over to RR and scrolled through all of her posts for the last couple of weeks, I found a couple of comments that you might consider slightly sharp but none that I'd call condescending nor did I find any that labelled the entire RR population nor any part of it as uncultured morons or anything even close to this.

Tin's 'chestthumping' comment was I believe related to an entirely different set of comments and none were related to Ms Dora, they were I believe a spin off from the hip-hop dialogues

And finally I don't think you can claim that RR has nothing to do with classical music, if the weekly recipes, allotments, bikes, kids, etc are OK, then classical music can surely have a place on a pop music blog.

If anyone wants to review her posts just double click her name and 'show all posts'. the ones that might support you pov's involve bishbosh, vaya and lazz; there's nothing of consequence there.

steenbeck said...

I'm sure you're right, GF. It was probably just me misinterpreting her sense of humor in my slow way. I don't know why my comments came out sounding so cranky. And as I mentioned, I like when people talk about classical music.

I was, originally actually talking about my Mom. And I owe her a lot. She's very passionate about music. One of the things I love about her is that she doesn't believe in music as background music - if you don't like it enough to pay attention to it don't bother listening. EVen- or maybe especially - instrumental music. I remember giving a CD of some of my favorite classical music to a friend, and she said, "oh good, I can study to it." And I thought...noooooooo! The apple don't fall far. Not that you have to sit and analyze every note, but you know...

David said something interesting the other day, which seemed sort of appropriate to the acorn conversation. He was listening to Stakes is High, a De La Soul album, and he said the thought of these grown men getting together and talking about emotional things that were significant to them (never mind doing it in a way that works perfectly with each other and to a beat) made him feel inexplicably moved. It made him think about his dad, for some reason, though I doubt his dad listened to a second of hip hop in his life.

nilpferd said...

Goneforeign, trawling through her old posts with a rational eye you may not understand why, but the fact remains it's the subjective view of several of us, independently of one another, that Fyodora has occasionally been unnecessarily abrasive and condescending. You also need to see this in the context of the blog, where hundreds of nominations are suddenly interrupted by a flow of invective. It does act like a slap in the face. She can't always help making quite disparaging remarks about other people and their selections, for example the "mercilessly aggressive, formulaic doggerel" of hip-hop, or "inconsequential" and "illiterate" pop music, which as you know goes against something of an unwritten rule on RR we've all taken to heart, and just rubs people up the wrong way unnecessarily. Now I'm sure you'd be moved to complain if someone described jazz or BMW in those terms.
It irks me that some see this as somehow "necessary" or desirable to keep us honest- I've nothing against criticism as such, but the same points can quite easily be couched in terms which offend no-one, and Fyodora is clearly articulate enough to manage this if she tries.
As one of the RRers who interacts most often with her, I deal with this on a take it as it comes basis, and I've said on here before that I don't think there's any sense in digging up old RR feuds on the 'Spill. However I can understand especially Steenbeck's frustration that there have been a few knee-jerk, blanket criticisms of Hip-hop of late on RR, and it's inevitable that steam will be let off over here on occasion.

treefrogdemon said...

Fyodora gets right up my nose.

Mnemonic said...

Mine too. Makes me want to recommend Stockhausen just to annoy her.

DarceysDad said...

I've given up interacting with fyodora, though I'm quite sad about that.

In the words of the old saying, "when she's good she's very very good, but when she's bad she's horrid".

What I mean is when she's on form, she has a big contribution to make, and a wit that I can appreciate. I've said on RR and I'll repeat here, I like that fyodora.

However, her lapses into - quite frankly - foul moods have no place in RR and her subsequent "Oh silly me, forgive me" dismissals are actually unforgiveable. I'm buggered if I'm going to spend time in my own virtual speakeasy (WITH THE BEST ONLINE SOCIAL CROWD I'VE EVER HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO KNOW), walking on eggshells wondering if she's going to crack, and leave another sulphurous mess in her wake. I don't need the stress!

That was already tipping the DsD scales against her, but then came the killer. With echoes of steenbeck's earlier comparison with her own mom, if there's one thing I actively loathe, it's music snobs, and classical snobs are the worst of the lot. A classical snob demanding to hold court in the Rock&Pop section of a Culture blog is a large step too far. She's now been sent to Coventry, and I'll let George keep me abreast of whether she merits being let out.

Makinavaja said...

As a recent addition to the RR family (if I may make so bold), who like others at the time I arrived, was very, very pleased, relieved and happy to have finally found a place where I could relax and exchange opinions, (limited, in my case,) knowledge and general feelings about music I have to second the general opinion expressed here regarding Ms God's Gift's (that's what her nick means, isn't it?) behaviour on the blog. It's clear she knows her onions, but only HER onions. There are plenty of musical genres I know nothing about and probably care for less. I fail to see that by dissing them I stand to gain anything. Thanks to my time on this blog I have discovered that I like Spanish Hip Hop a lot more than I thought I would. Why? Because Steenbeck, Gremlin and others expressed an interest and having it close to hand, I thought it only right to take a look and see if there was anything I could point them in the direction of. I think we all benefited from that. I certainly did.
Likewise, I have discovered an affinity with lambretinha maybe more on a linguistic level that has also made me happy. We are working on a joint post,which will appear when we're sure it's actually worth reading, on the Spanish songwriters of recent times that has been inspired by Antonio Vega's untimely death and a few exchanges we had on RR around that time. This , to me, is what this should all be about. Two people who meet in the virtual speakeasy DsD mentioned above, who find a common interest and decide they want to share it with their new found friends.
I know I have got involved in some of the more tiresome punning and general tomfoolery that goes on after deadline. If people find this annoying I sympathise but I fail to see that this (or recipes and allotments) has anything like the detrimental effect on general morale that the above-mentioned Lady Theo has had.

Mnemonic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mnemonic said...

Sorry Tin, we've really hi-jacked your post here. Just wanted to add that I love the post deadline foolery and have always had a weakness for a really bad pun. They don't spoil the atmosphere at all. It's being told that we're all inferior beings who would appreciate classical if only we had it pointed out to us that upsets me. Like Steen, I had a classically trained mother, piano and choral (she sang in a choir trained by Gustav Holst)and although I love lots of classical music, I don't necessarily find it "better".

DarceysDad said...

Spot on, Mnemonic, so good you said it twice!

;o)

And a gremlin-style 'hear, hear' for Makinavaja's sentiments.

tincanman said...

quick note to say no worries re hijacking or anything. am disappearing for hopefully less than day as I'm reformatting.
didn't want to just disappear.
cheers

steenbeck said...

JUst felt the need to...Sorry about this, but I had this guilty feeling that if my mom read this she'd be anxious for a long time about being a disapproving snob. So...My mom is a very remarkable person. She grew up in Kansas in the 50s. Kansas in the 50s. Think about that for a moment. She discovered foreign cultures in college, went to Belgium for a year as an Au Pair, went to Lutheran work camp in Mexico. Tried nurse's training, which was one of the three options for women at the time. Somehow ended up in graduate school for Indian studies (far-indian). Now she's fiercely liberal (in the American sense). She learned to think for herself, make her own decisions. My dad is also a midwesterner from a very conservative (catholic) background. I admire them so much for deciding what to think for themselves. Classical music, for my mom, is not some in-bred snobby thing. It's something she never ever heard growing up and discovered for herself. Phew. I'm soooooo done now. Sorry everyone. I felt bad about giving the wrong impression.

goneforeign said...

I'm amazed at the degree of hostility here because I'm not seeing the complaints you're raising, and I went back and did a fairly thorough search. Someone mentioned a comment about hip-hop and it's audience, I didn't see that one and I read everything for the last two weeks, perhaps you're confusing her with Gremlin? and I must say that I'm surprised that no one here chooses to comment on his views on hip-hop.
What I see with Ms Feisty is a knowledgeable, witty and very articulate person who expresses her views forcibly and has amongst the widest ranging taste on the blog. I enjoy her comments.
If anyone feels up to it I'd like to see specific instances to support your comments. Otherwise lets just drop it, once again I didn't intend to sow this much discord and confusion with my initial denial of her condescension.

Makinavaja said...

GF. Nilpferd's quote re Hip Hop is maybe from a couple of weeks or more ago. Fyodora has frequently referred not only to recommendations but to other posters in a derogatory manner. Questioning their posts and criticising people for posting long lists of donds or such like. As if somehow we all had to fit in with her view of how RR is to be conducted.She has a very sharp tongue and doesn't seem to mind if she offends. She can always apologise later, can't she? This to my mind is quite simply not good form. You can disagree with another person's point of view without recourse to belittling their opinions, actions and intelligence. No one here has mistaken her for Gremlin. Gremlin made a number of points he felt strongly about this weekend and put a lot of noses out of joint but from what I read he was being sincere and (perhaps rather too strongly in some people's view) expressing a heartfelt concern. He wasn't trying to offend. Maybe he did. If that is the case, it is regrettable of course but I genuinely believe he wasn't talking down to anyone and it certainly wasn't a points scoring exercise. Fyo ,on the other hand, seems to enjoy winding people up and then saying sorry (and not always). There is a difference.

steenbeck said...

I just wanted to say that I respect Fyodora--she's smart and sharp and funny. When it comes to the discussion about hip hop I have no problem with her. I never wanted to convert anyone and she's entitled to her own opinion. In fact, when we started talking about doing a hip hop post (in response to Tincanman's request) I was very distressed by the bully-ish response leveled in her direction, and I tried to defend her from the onslaught at the time. It was never about her.

My reaction, and it feels just too petty and silly to acknowledge, was about comments she made about my nominations for songs by the White Stripes and the Pixies. She didn't need to say anything, but for some reason she made it sound (to my ears) like these nominations made her sad about the state of the world. It's her opinion, and I'm fine with that, and I'm sure I overreacted and I wish I'd never brought it up.

Basically, that's the end of it. I wish I'd never brought it up. I agree with GF--she's very funny and very smart and very passionate about whatever she believes, and I feel bad that I somehow steered this in her direction.

goneforeign said...

"Fyodora has frequently referred not only to recommendations but to other posters in a derogatory manner.'
You all keep repeating this: show me specifically

steenbeck said...

(secret donds to TFD's up the nose comment, which is a phrase I've never heard but will be sure to use from now on...)

nilpferd said...

GF, I cut and pasted from Fyodora's comments, specifically those from
09 Sep 09, 6:09pm
07 Sep 09, 4:42pm
07 Sep 09, 11:04am
Go back and read these three, just as an example, and if you find nothing offensive there, let's just agree to differ. Everyone else who expressed an opinion on here did, so maybe we're all just that much more thin-skinned than you are.

goneforeign said...

Nilp: Thanks for locating these offending comments, I've re-read them and am still at a loss generally as to why all the hostility.

fyodora
07 Sep 09, 4:42pm

@May1366 (sorry I mis-initialled your name earlier) – Oh dear. I feared I might get the hip hoppers jumping up and down.
I have listened to a variety of rap (there may be a category distinction here) and cannot for the life of me understand how it can be called 'music'. True, most of it is performed against some kind of basic musical accompaniment, but the words seem to me to be little more than formulaic doggerel, delivered in a mercilessly aggressive manner and liberally sprinkled with foul language. There are, of course, some exceptions for example US3 have done some interesting stuff; then there's, er…
It might be said that I haven't given the genre a chance but life is short and I'm sure it, and its fervent adherents, can cope without the likes of this awkward old cow.
Enjoy.

If this is an example of what's upsetting you all would someone please explain what's so offensive? And whilst you're at it on this topic, add your thoughts re. Gremlin. Maki's 'sincerity' doesn't cut it, Ms Dora's just as sincere.

fyodora
07 Sep 09, 11:04am

After page upon page of inconsequential popdoodah with its illiterate 'lyrics', I came across this poignant gem from treefrogdemon:
The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw [to the 1842 Ashley Mines Commission]
I
try to be respectable, but sir, the shame, God save my soul.
I work with naked, sweating men who curse and swear and hew the coal.
The sights, the sounds, the smells, kind Sir, not even God could know my pain.
I say my prayers, but what's the use? Tomorrow will be just the same.
By no means a folkie, I am nevertheless bowled over by Rachel Unthanks (is that really her name?). I was moved to tears.
Now it's back to what seems to have degenerated into a boy's chatline, much of which being conducted in some kind of faux dialect, yet more boring lists and barrel-scraping. I ask you, Buttons And Bows, for God's sake. Struth!

I don't know what 'page upon page' refers to but I see absolutely nothing in her quote that could get up TFD's nose. I suppose some sensitive souls might take offense at 'boy's chatline' and 'faux dialect', but if that's what's bothering you then the barrel is indeed being scraped.

goneforeign said...

There's a bit more, for the first time ever I got this message on my preceding post so I split it'

Your HTML cannot be accepted: Must be at most 4,096 characters

fyodora
09 Sep 09, 6:09pm

Well, I haven't given up yet, but I nearly did; here's a partial explanation. I conducted an unscientific analysis of just one page, p17, with these results:
Songs about truth – 2, or at a pinch, 3.
Comments about rap – 8
Bragging – 28
Big boys' chat line – 26
Songs about toffee (I think) – 1
Of course, there's bound to be a degree of duplication, particularly between the the third and fourth. I enjoy talking and reading about music of all sorts, but I certainly don't want to have to wade through other people's (frequently incomprehensible) guff about what they did and where they went on holiday, what they had for dinner, how fluent they are in other languages or how smart their kids are. Does nobody edit or even read this stuff? And can we be spared the prurience please, boys?
Some observations before I go and cook supper:
Little Red Rooster is about tumescence, an affliction not unknown to bragging chaps. It is a cause of some anxiety and not just to chickens.
There is a moral dimension to Tosca that I have somehow missed in gangsta rap.
Are SCOW and SOWC commutative. If so, what about WOCS and … oh what the hell.
Today I learnt what Spanish folk call The Muppets. My life is enriched thereby!
Is Toffee a song about what pop singers can't sing for?
I had a listen and can find nothing particularly Smashing about the ditto Pumpkins.
Finally, congratulations to the lovely Speech Debelle on her triumph at the Mercury's. I know, I know, it's hophip or whatever, but her obvious joy in what she was doing was a cheering sight to these rheumy old eyes. Saved by Debelle, you might say. And it is a measure of my sincerity that I have graciously avoided the other pun.
Cheers, m'dears.
Saved by Debelle, is not the one I mean.

I again don't know what she refers to with her unscientific analysis and the only possible 'offensive' comments to date are those referring to holidays, dinners and languages, fair enough if that's what's upsetting you all, so be it, it doesn't bother me.
Qualities that I enjoy in people are creativity and intelligence, both reasons that I enjoy the Spill, both qualities that she regulary exhibits. The richness of her comments on the wide ranging topic of music make her ideas interesting and well worth reading.

treefrogdemon said...

OK, gf, here's one of the bits that I didn't like:

"I have listened to a variety of rap (there may be a category distinction here) and cannot for the life of me understand how it can be called 'music'. True, most of it is performed against some kind of basic musical accompaniment, but the words seem to me to be little more than formulaic doggerel, delivered in a mercilessly aggressive manner and liberally sprinkled with foul language."

This, to me, is insulting to those many RRers who enjoy hip-hop. There is no need for these remarks - she does it to upset people. If she doesn't like it, fine - no-one is forcing it on her.

(The reference nilpferd quotes about my Unthanks post didn't upset me, by the way - but later she refers to it again and says she's done some research and apparently the judge in the hearing the song's about had commented that the young woman was a liar. I WAS a bit thrown by this, because it seemed to me that she was trying to rubbish my recommendation.)

And I don't find her jokes amusing, come to that.

TatankaYotanka said...

quick note to say no worries re hijacking or anything. am disappearing for hopefully less than day as I'm reformatting.

Are U the new Doctor Hoo?
And is Fyodora old hat?
Are we the other people?
Are you another person too?
have they found a way to get to you?

goneforeign said...

TFD: I am amazed! First of all what she says about rap is true to her and to a huge portion of the population, given what gremlin describes as content we're supposed to respect their rights, how about them respecting our rights, your rights?
How come when she presents an idea it's insulting, there's dozens of ideas voiced there and everywhere else everyday, not everybody agrees with them but they're not insulted. I regularly hear that jazz is not interesting, it's too hard, it's boring, so what, I don't take it personally and neither should you. I think you're looking for excuses to to hate her because she's opinionated and somewhat strident with it. And of course the unthanks quote shouldn't upset you, all she did for christsakes is to quote verbatim a nineteenth century judge, why are you looking for ways to see that as an attack on your post?
Obviously you don't find her jokes funny but I'd bet that if they were uttered by any Spillers you'd crack a smile.
Anyhow it's 5 mins to zero hour, I'm off to see if she's on yet.

ejaydee said...

We're going nowhere with this, some don't like her style, some do, it doesn't deserve anymore attention I think.

Makinavaja said...

Quite right EJD - agree to differ and lose no sleep.

Shoegazer said...

1. Don't we need some grit in our oysters?
2. If you were Fyodora, how would you feel if you read this thread back?
3. Are we not all music snobs in one way or another?
4. Way of the Hippo?
5. If you don't defend your point of view haven't you lost the argument?
6. Can't this be dealt with over on the Mothership?

Shoegazer said...

Anyway, to get back on track:

Know very little about my parental units' musical taste. Mum has a very good singing voice & seems to like her tunes in a theatrical setting (musicals, Gilbert & Sullivan etc.). I'm told Dad liked to "cut the rug" back in the day, so I'm guessing that the music was secondary to picking up women at the Palais with his mates. In later years, he preferred classical & opera. Couldn't share this with him as this was enjoyed through very large headphones & he would dose off conducting the orchestra in his comfy chair with his left foot.

goneforeign said...

Shoey: Six good points, and she did read it and acted very graciously

gremlinfc said...

Probably noone will read this as it's way late in the discussion but I'd like to back up what Herr Schuh says: this happened to me several months ago and believe me , to read the sort of vitriolic and acerbic comments from fellow RR-ers about you is a sickening experience. Most people would feel so humiliated and belittled that they would probably never return , but thankfully we have more about us and have not been deterred, but it is a phenomena I think the whole of the Spill need to look at :
* it smacks of bullying and "ganging up" and though I don't want to further antagonise any of the colleagues who made comments about Fyadora (or me previously) I would strongly suggest everyone thinks about how these things are dealt with.
There must be a better way than to publicly assassinate a person's character ?
One person starts it then others jump in and before you know it you have a small group gathering round shouting "scrap! scrap! scrap!" like at junior school.
Are we not all intelligent and articulate adults?
Everyone pisses someone off at some point - but to descend into the sort of finger -pointing and bad-mouthing done in small groups , does not look good.
The beauty of this place is that people can work things out : point things out when it happens , don't let them rumble- just like in real life?

ejaydee said...

Avoiding hyperbole would be a good start to improve the way these matters are dealt with. This discussion about fyodora wasn't planned, she came up, and this conversation is not confidential. Saying somebody gets up your nose is hardly vitriolic or character assassination. Some people have pointed out to fyodora when they felt she went over the line, it's her choice whether to take that on board or not, if she doesn't, well...
I feel like you took on board what was said to you, yet you're still very much yourself, and everybody's happier, at least I hope you are.

DarceysDad said...

Hi gremlin.

Very well put; a "hear, hear" from me.

Only yourself and fyodora can answer your question about how it feels, but I agree completely with your playground analogy, and it is not what I want to see when I blog.

For what it's worth, I once suffered similar abuse on one specific GU thread (when I had the temerity not to prostrate myself in worship at the feet of The One True God Sinatra!), and it did indeed drive me away from commenting on any thread other than RR for a long time. So there was some scratching at old scar tissue going on at my desk this week.

In fact I felt really uncomfortable about the way this was heading, thinking back to that and the very example of yourself: that's why I opened it up at the end of last week's thread.

I have to add as an aside here, that on each of the occasions it has happened, the true life gentleman of our community rode in from the West (US) to defend the downtrodden. My respect for goneforeign rises yet further.

I stand by what was hacking me off; I'm no hip-hop fan - I can't even begin to understand any part of that entire culture - but comments like the snooty "can barely call it music" line go against the grain of our famed inclusivity. It may well be unwitting, but it does nonetheless demean the worth of contributors who find joy in the genre being sneered at. I would like to be able to say that you'll never hear something like that from me; I normally just stay out of the way. On this occasion, I realise I let the 'hatred of classical music snobs' chip on my shoulder weigh down my arm back into contact with keyboard; I shouldn't have let it.

Anyway, I have now seen fyodora's response over yonder; am happy to and will go and respond (how much longer have I got some peace whilst DsMam & kids are glued to Strictly Come Dancing?).

The blog is richer for the knowledge and enthusiasm brought by fans of different kinds of music. Long may we ALL stick around!

Finally, @ Shoey?
1. Not at the price I'm paying.
2. See above.
3. NO! Enthusiasts yes, but there is no merit in snobbery.
4. *Sigh* Yup; I'll write it out one hundred times.
5. You can't argue with a closed mind.
6. We have, which is where I'm heading now.

Best wishes, y'all. [Except to Man Utd, obviously!]

;o)

gremlinfc said...

First of all hi Ejaydee - yes you're right sometimes people need a little word in their ear and a step back to reflect...that’s totally cool and i recommend it. That’s what I needed and probably F too. What no one needs is the other treatment. Sorry EJD but in my book it’s not acceptable. I also fully stand by what I said about the effect it has- to read lots of very negative comments published for all to see and indeed join in on is not pleasant - if it's not been experienced it's hard to understand. I hope noone else goes through it. When I used the words “vitriolic” and “acerbic” I was referring to both situations and the collected comments not selective ones -maybe I should have made that clear. I absolutely stand by those adjectives. if "an attack intended to ruin someone's reputation" is an acceptable definition for CA then there can be no argument about the public comments made. The example you quote is patently NOT either, but believe me there were plenty that were. I’m not going to patronise you by defining the words but if an antonym for vitriolic is “bland” or “mild” then...I think you and I are bound forever to disagree about most things , which is how life is sometimes. I think we’re both cool with that BUT as long as we –and others in similar predicaments- can agree to disagree pleasantly then there should not be a problem. I will have to do that here. I find it sad that you picked up on the adjectives used but could not find it in you to acknowledge the harmful effect it can have. BTW I don't remember anyone suggesting to F that she tone it down a bit? I recently received an email which contained the addresses for most of the RR-ers. I have no intention of using them , unless someone says something so outrageous i think it needs mentioning, in which case I might (and only might) give them a gentle nudge. I am still very much myself and have learned from the experience BUT it took some serious thought about whether it meant enough to come back knowing some of the pretty dreadful things that were said. Having said that some of those who were most critical have accepted (i think) that this gremlinfc is genuine, passionate, sincere and more thoughtful when making statements.
Hello DsD - I hope you read this as I am going to put my hand on my Yorkshireman's heart and say that your generosity and humour and willingness to engage with me here and on t'other side has been one of the factors which has brought me back. I find your posts hilarious at times, very self-deprecating (useful in Yorkshire) and it's a pleasure to see your tag come up when i get on the RR-Circus (there's not another meaning for "tag come up" is there?). If you can't stand hip-hop that's cool -even if you slag it off I won't get out me pram...
At the end of the day - it's live and let live (or is it die?)...

gremlinfc said...

First of all hi Ejaydee - yes you're right sometimes people need a little word in their ear and a step back to reflect...that’s totally cool and i recommend it. That’s what I needed and probably F too. What no one needs is the other treatment. Sorry EJD but in my book it’s not acceptable. I also fully stand by what I said about the effect it has- to read lots of very negative comments published for all to see and indeed join in on is not pleasant - if it's not been experienced it's hard to understand. I hope noone else goes through it. When I used the words “vitriolic” and “acerbic” I was referring to both situations and the collected comments not selective ones -maybe I should have made that clear. I absolutely stand by those adjectives. if "an attack intended to ruin someone's reputation" is an acceptable definition for CA then there can be no argument about the public comments made. The example you quote is patently NOT either, but believe me there were plenty that were. I’m not going to patronise you by defining the words but if an antonym for vitriolic is “bland” or “mild” then...I think you and I are bound forever to disagree about most things , which is how life is sometimes. I think we’re both cool with that BUT as long as we –and others in similar predicaments- can agree to disagree pleasantly then there should not be a problem. I will have to do that here. I find it sad that you picked up on the adjectives used but could not find it in you to acknowledge the harmful effect it can have. BTW I don't remember anyone suggesting to F that she tone it down a bit? I recently received an email which contained the addresses for most of the RR-ers. I have no intention of using them , unless someone says something so outrageous i think it needs mentioning, in which case I might (and only might) give them a gentle nudge. I am still very much myself and have learned from the experience BUT it took some serious thought about whether it meant enough to come back knowing some of the pretty dreadful things that were said. Having said that some of those who were most critical have accepted (i think) that this gremlinfc is genuine, passionate, sincere and more thoughtful when making statements.
Hello DsD - I hope you read this as I am going to put my hand on my Yorkshireman's heart and say that your generosity and humour and willingness to engage with me here and on t'other side has been one of the factors which has brought me back. I find your posts hilarious at times, very self-deprecating (useful in Yorkshire) and it's a pleasure to see your tag come up when i get on the RR-Circus (there's not another meaning for "tag come up" is there?). If you can't stand hip-hop that's cool -even if you slag it off I won't get out me pram...
At the end of the day - it's live and let live (or is it die?)...

gremlinfc said...

PS - sorry for double-posting - it was accidental...honest.

ejay said...

Sorry Gremlin, didn't mean to belittle the effect both discussions had on you and fyodora, I just didn't acknowledge it in my reply to you, and also, maybe I didn't take into account the effect of the quantity of comment, rather than the quality.

P.S. I don't think we disagree on most things, we like a lot of the same music for a start.

goneforeign said...

Well, I just re-read this entire thread and took notes as I did, I felt there were still things outstanding that needed further comment but on re-reading Gremlin's comments I decided that everything that needs be said has been said.
I would definitely recommend that all of you take a couple of minutes and re-read his first post and apply his comments to your actions here.

Makinavaja said...

"Hear, Hear", Gremlin.

steenbeck said...

I'm guessing at this point we all want this to be done.

but...

Sorry to Gremlin and Fyodora, it would be tough to read some of these exchanges, and Gremlin, I can see how it might feel the way you described it. Sorry about that.

I think that, as a community, we really value our community, which is bolstered by supportive good will. And we look out for each other. And we're wary of things going the way we've seen them on other blogs. So maybe we overdo it sometimes, but we're thinking of each other (which I think you'll find when you look back over either exchange) not ourselves. And I respect many members of the spill community as being the most gentle and reasonable when it comes to facing any kind of conflict. On more than one occasion I have been unbelievably impressed with the way Nilpferd or EJaydee (to name only two out of many many) have responded to somebody that addressed them with less-than-friendly swagger. (Dsd...I'm more impressed with you every day.)

Anyway, I think we've all agreed at this point that we value Gremlin and Fyodora's contributions, I hope that you two came away with that at least.

And apropos of nothing, really, I'm probably just talking to myself, but I've had this thought in my head...It's something I'm trying to teach my boys, and trying to remind myself of every day. If you act in a certain way to get yourself attention, you might not like the kind of attention you get. Doesn't really relate to the conversation, but it's something I've been thinking about lately.

Anyway -- massive affection for the entire community of RR/'Spill raining on you from this side of the Atlantic.

steenbeck said...

80!

tincanman said...

Re 80!
I know, makes me look like one of the cool kids. Can I sit at your table? Ignore the Winnie the Pooh lunchbox. It's my little brother's honest. I just grabbed it by mistake. Anyone want to share some of my fave a day? Oh golly, prunes again.

steenbeck said...

Hehheh, Malcolm's grandmother got him a winnie-the-pooh water bottle. He liked it at first (it has a strap to hang around your neck!!) but when it came time to bring it to camp or school he opted out. And he's only 7!

gremlinfc said...

Couple of thinmgs I want to mention TCM - hope you don't mind a private email.
GFC

steenbeck said...

D'oh! It was snoopy, not Winnie.

tincanman said...

@ Steenbeck
All those kid animals blend into one after awhile. I was telling my kids the other day how Prince Rabbit tried the slipper on Ariel and lived happily ever in the castle with the dwarfs. They did cry ''hi ho'' when they saw her, so perhaps she wasn't of the best reputation. Guess that's what you get for letting your hair down and letting any old fecker climb up.

@ gremlin
Thanks but music is my escape from life's challenges and dramas and at the moment I'm happier limiting my RR life to nomming a few, listening to a lot and donding some (and the odd shout to old friends, of course)

gremlinfc said...

Ok TCM fair enuff - hope you have read my comment above - it's well worth taking into account, from the heart and no BS - you not got a comment to drop? One of the other things I can safely ask here is whether you did you ever listen to the CD i sent you? I know what it's like having small children - i've brought 2 up to adulthood and always found asome time for me. It would be nice to get just a line of feedback being as it took me ages to do. Courtesy and all that.

gremlinfc said...

Sorry TCM one of the others was : Why didn't you address me when you were annoyed by my post re. misogyny in hip-hop? Why didn't you just say : "Gremlinfc just lay off man" instead of seeming to invite people to stick the boot in with your comment"Why do people encourage this guy?" (this guy being me of course who you could have reasonably addressed...)it baffles me and leaves many questions unanswered , as if you really were concerned about this shared blog then you'd have had a word. Does it not work like that? Do only certain people get treated like that?
Sorry, but I am very curious.

tincanman said...

Gremlinfc, you are right it was wrong of me to make that comment, and I regret making it. I also apologize to the RR community for not taking a deep breath as I should of. As for the CD, I did send a thank you email, but thank you again in public.

That's me done on this topic. I've been revisiting my Elliott Smith discography this week, and he amazes me every time.