Unfortunately the Guardian moderators don't appear to agree with this sentiment, since they've removed ShivSideCar's riposte. I don't want to contribute to a thread that has white power fucktards crapping over it, so I'm bailing out of this weeks RR from this point onwards.
Since I'm more of a metal fan than a punk fan, this is Napalm Death's version.
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14 comments:
I saw this and went to have a look over on RR.
I think it is sickening that racist scum can get nominated without any outcry from the mods.
What angered me was I reported him to the mods under "Hate speech", and they responded by deleting ShivSideCar's response, and leaving the original intact.
Fair do's, CaroleB, but it's only when I got here just now - having been intrigued by Shiv's (in the event, justifiably) vitriolic response when I dipped in at work, without spotting (or having the time to work out) what it was about - that I made the connection. I'm fairly sure being a moderator relies more on people reporting abuse than having an in-depth knowledge of the BNP songbook. I'm more heartened (but not surprised by) the messages of support arriving on the RR blog. For being first off the mark, perhaps we should ask Maddy to confine the A-list to Shiv's nominations.....
Apropos nothing, I'm listening to my radio on last, and Beefheart's 'Nowadays a woman's gotta hit a man' came on
The original poster is either a genuine neo-Nazi, a troll, or both.
From my experience of community web forums (of which RR is one), unless the moderators take a zero tolerance approach to trolls, the trolls will eventually take over and destroy the community.
I don't buy the libertarian arguments that communities are self-moderating for a moment. If trolls aren't slapped hard, the whole place will become a hostile environment for anyone that's not a thick-skinned loudmouth.
Don't often pass this way - I'm glad I did this evening. Lady and gentlemen, your comments are really appreciated. Let's hope this limping dog of a story now collapses into a shallow grave.
(But Skippy, even I wouldn't listen to an A-list of my own decidedly wobbly nominations...)
@Kalyr, I note your comment about trolls, I've seen CiF descend to nothing because of that. Admittedly, tho, I didn't know about this group (OK I'm not THAT politically active) but I've been alerted.
Meanwhile, please come back to the mothership, we're all on your side and I need you to dond my DP, Rainbow and Rush nominations!
At the risk of being slightly out-of-step with everyone else (as if being a deadhead wasn't bad enough), I think the matter has been dealt with correctly.
It is not possible to stop anyone posting on a public blog and, by all accounts, the band in question (who I have never heard and don't intend to) probably fits under this provocative topic. There have been past nominations on all sorts of topics where the lyrics are in questionable taste. The blogger in question did not post a link to any song/diatribe and did not overtly back them as a political force to be heeded.
The moderator can only take action on offensive posts (hence the exchange which had both posts deleted).
I'm not just being a wishy-washy liberal here but I don't we should stop anyone posting a recommendation. Our collective and individual choice is how to respond. In this case, the responses have been swift and unanimous, which appear to have made the 'rat' scuttle away. That has to be how things work, surely?
I agree and disagree, Chris. Personally, I was starting to feel the thread was getting slightly boorish. Never offensive and stemming from genuine musical passions as every week, but comments to the effect of thank god wishy-washy discos are out of the way so we can get into a proper theme (which I wholly understand was 100% about the music and not to be construed in wider terms) made it feel to me like a lot of somewhat joyless clatter. Loads of good stuff being shouted but maybe missing the more lateral thinking that always accompanies the nominations process (maybe Abahachi's delayed entrance was a factor?). Anyway, it actually, ultimately, was refreshing to read and contribute to the responses to that one poster - particularly Shiv's comment which alerted me to the problem in the first place. So I'm with you that I'd rather face these people down because, as I said, people like him have been a presence in my life in this country since I was the age of my primary school-going kids and I've come to know that they're pretty fucking puny compared to me and most people I know, especially in a context where all they've got to call upon are words and intellect. I'd rather we dealt with it than leave it to the moderators, who are wishy-washy liberals by definition and necessity and who'll be obliged to take action against comments like Shiv's as well or, in this case, first, thus meaning we end up the ones watching what we say.
But but but - if that poster had left it at just naming the Skrewdriver tracks, if he hadn't jumped so readily upon the first voice of dissent, if he hadn't sought to shoehorn in his politics with the crass "don't be so PC" line, if he'd even just had the nous to attempt a more articulate and elegant (since that's the watchword for nominations at the best of times) justification for his choice, then he might still be a neo-Nazi but, as Tim is right to point out, he'd wouldn't be a troll. We were all worried about trolls when the format changed - I didn't even consider offensive politics showing up, just offensive people - and I think that concern has conversely helped to produce some wonderful reading over the past couple of months. But this one might just have left a stain if it had lingered so thanks and well done to Shiv for slapping him down in the first place, to those of us who made comments over there, to Tim and others for taking the stand by coming here, and to sonofwebcore and whoever else reported the troll and got him removed.
May, we agree about everything. I'm pretty sure your analysis of the poster's attitude etc is accurate. The only point I was making is the first one you address: it is our joint responsibility to defend the spirit of the thing and not let it be used for anti-social purposes.
I'm not aware the 'troll' phenomenon: if this is part of a concerted effort of some sort then I don't have the full picture. But he (sorry, but we all know it is a 'he')seems to have come to the end of his plan for world-degradation in this neck of the woods. Power to the people!
Absolutely - just on the 'trolls' point, it usually isn't anything at all concerted, just some attention-seeking wind-up merchant who won't shut up until they've got the thread to swivel around to engage with whatever they're spouting about. They don't have to be political or even especially offensive, very often (though probably less so on our overwhelmingly mature-to-decrepit discussions!) they might be silly schoolkids with about one thing to contribute who end up making a lot of cyber-noise when the grown-ups are trying to chat. The "WTF is wrong with you people...?" types.
But it can mushroom whether through some concerted effort ("Come and join me over on the Guardian blog to argue with the lesbian communists...") or just the same random processes that brought our one little troll to the site.
Anyway, seems back to normal and there's credit too to the ones who've carried on as normal.
About time we had some grindcore on the 'Spill!
And Maddy has proved to be the backstop we always knew was there. Her comment this morning makes it plain that the opportunity to pollute our ears doesn't extend to neo-nazi propaganda.
Bring on the cooking and childcare musings!
Just a footnote- I looked at the other comments by the same contributor, Kingcroat- sometimes you can get an insight into the motivations of a poster by viewing their own profile. Considering he'd only commented a couple of times on RR and otherwise had made an inflammatory comment on a thread about Karadjic, it was pretty clear where he was coming from.
(ie, Shiv was right in the first place.)
I'm with Chris in that the moderators handled the situation correctly, given time.
I have a live bmx bandits LP where they cover nazi punks fuck off!
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